There's a Man on the throne

Originally posted by divegeester
Can you provide some corroborate scriptures that support your "biblical perspective"?

Can you provide some corroborate scriptures that support your "biblical perspective"?

Originally posted by divegeester
Sure, whatever.
The point is, it's not Biblcal.

I'm not sure sir that is a very strong argument. Many things exist and are true that are not covered in the bible. Indeed, if all knowledge was limited to what was written in the bible, i'd be sending this message to you via donkey.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
I'm not sure sir that is a very strong argument. Many things exist and are true that are not covered in the bible. Indeed, if all knowledge was limited to what was written in the bible, i'd be sending this message to you via donkey.

I think part of the problem Christians have is their interpretation of the Genesis creation account. Many take it literally eg the whole universe with the billions of galaxies were all created at the same time. I think that is an incorrect interpretation.

It is more likely that God created our galaxy all at the same time while the rest of the universe was already in existence. The Bible says that the sun, moon and the stars were created... Sun to rule by day and moon, stars to rule by night. Christians take that to mean that its the whole universe. The stars that rule by night is not the entire universe. Stars which light up our night sky are only those from our Milky Way galaxy. No stars from other galaxies rule our skies by night.

Originally posted by divegeester
Can you provide some corroborate scriptures that support your "biblical perspective"?

There is a general lack of corroborative documentation hereabouts, isn't there, dive?
One might at least expect a retraction of the claim that such support exists.

The Man on the throne through the distribution of Himself as the Holy Spirit,
can live through us and in us today. This is the good news.

Sung to the tune of Oh Come All Ye Faithful

There's a Man in the glory
Whose life is for me.
He's pure and He's holy
Triumphant and free.
He's wise and He's loving
How tender is He!
His Life in the glory
My life must be
His Life in the glory,
My life must be.

There's a Man in the glory
Whose Life is for me.
He overcame Satan;
From bondage He's free.
In Life He is reigning;
How kingly is He!
His Life in the glory,
My life must be;
His Life in the glory
My life must be.

There's a Man in the glory
Whose Life is for me.
In Him is not sickness;
No weakness has He.
He's strong and in vigor,
How buoyant is He!
His Life in the glory
My life may be;
His Life in the glory
My life may be.

There's a Man in the glory
Whose Life is for me.
His peace is abiding
How patient is He!
He's joyful and radiant,
Expecting to see
His Life in the glory
Lived out in me;
His Life in the glory
Lived out in me.

Hymn 505, Living Stream Ministry Hymnal
Lyrics by Witness Lee

Christ, as the Man in whose hands all authority has been given, is the prototype.
Where He has gone, God must bring with Him, into that same shared reality.

Prototype :

1.) The Firstborn among many brothers

"Because whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers." (Rom. 8:29)

2.The Author of their salvation leading many sons into glory

"For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and through whom are all things, in leading many sons into glory to make Author of their salvation perfect through sufferings." (Heb. 2:10)

3.) In His second coming He comes as the Firstborn.

And when He brings again the Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says, "And let all the angels of God worship Him." (Heb 1:6)

This is not speaking of Christ "the Firstborn of all creation" but of Christ "the Firstborn of many brothers" and "the Firstborn from among the dead".

Christ as the Firstborn among many brothers He is leading into the glorious expression of God mingled with humanity, is the Beginning of the new creation.

"These things says the Amen, the faitfhul and true Witness, the beginning of the creation of God...." (Rev. 3:14)

Here in Revealtion 1:14 it does not refer to the old creation of which Christ is the Firstborn of all creation (Col. 1:15). Although that is wonderful too, the Christ is the preeminent One of God's creation.

But there is a new creation which commenced from RESURRECTION. That is the new creation when humanity is brought into divinity, uplifted, sanctified, divinized of which new creation Christ is the Head, and Firstborn from the dead ( Col. 1:18)

"And He [Christ] is the Head of the Body, the church, He is the beginning, the Firsrborn from the dead, that He might have the first place in all things."

Today, the glorified resurrected Man on the throne of God is "the beginning" of a whole "new creation" and the Head of the Body which is an entity of the mingling of God and man, "the church".

This Man is given the first place in both the old creation and the new creation. All the will, promises, and plans of God find their Yes and Amen in Him. The "Amen" is the "So Be It"[/b] or the "So Shall It Be". In other words Christ's preeminence is totally inevitable. The universal vindication of of Jesus Christ is sure to be the inevitable outcome of human history.

Every tongue of man that has ever existed will one day confess "Jesus is Lord". Look down at your knees. Feel your knees. Every knee of human beings that has ever existed will bow and confess Jesus is Lord.

Sooner or latter this will happen. I say why not sooner rather than latter?
Jesus, the prototype and Firstborn Son of God is the Head and Lord of all existence.

Jesus Christ the prototype accomplished it all for us. He did the work and finished the work.

The life of this One who fully was absolute in success to accomplish the will of the Father, is distributable. In the modern speech, we could say Christ can be "downloaded".

Christ, the victorious Man, is in a form in which He can be downloaded and installed into our being. This is the entrance to reality. This is the good news. This is the matter hated by the would be masters of the universe. whose destiny is defeat and eternal damnation.

Though i have used some modern terms like downloaded and perhaps distributable, this is exactly what the Bible indicates in how we can appropriate Jesus Christ's life into our lives.

" the last Adam became a life giving Spirit." (1 Cor. 15:45b)

It is not a small thing to open your mouth and heart to say "Lord Jesus, Lord Jesus I just receive You. You, Lord, are faithful. You, Lord are trustworthy to keep Your promise. I just thank You and receive You are my redemption, my forgiveness, my righteousness, and my very life to live from this day on."

God is FAITHFUL .

"God is faithful, through whom you were called into the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord." (1 Cor. 1:9)

Now I will go back to see if I have any comments to pasts posts which are relevant to "the Man on the throne" topic

Originally posted by karoly aczel
This whole "dominate the Earth" stuff just doesn't gel with me either...

This whole "dominate the Earth" stuff just doesn't gel with me either...

Isn't that what you hope science and technology will do more and more of ?

What is the hope to desalinate the salty ocean water?
What is the hope to predict when an earthquake will occur?
What is the desire to locate where a tornado will form?
What is the planning to colonize other planets?
What is the desire to develop Artificial Intelligence?

In one way or another all these things are to put humanity in control of the environment.

What do I want that you do not want ?
Christ is called "the Desire of all the nations" in Haggai 2:7..

The Bible is saying that, though they may not realize it, it is the Just One, the Righteous One, the Reigning One, He who conquers sin and death, the Prince of Peace in Jesus Christ that ALL the nations are longing for.

Anyway, man is not simply curious for curiousity's sake alone. How to channel the knowledge learned to make his human life better, is always the aim of some. Some find out knowledge. And others take that knowledge to figure out how to improve our lives on the earth.

All this is a desire for domination of the creation.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
I'm not sure sir that is a very strong argument. Many things exist and are true that are not covered in the bible. Indeed, if all knowledge was limited to what was written in the bible, i'd be sending this message to you via donkey.

You seem to be deliberately missing my point, which is that it's not biblical so cannot be claimed as true based, as Rajk999 says, on a "Biblical perspective".

To be clear, I'm not arguing that life on other planets is not possible or likely or whatever, I'm arguing that it is not Biblical. Furthermore to float the premise that there is a "Biblical perpsective" that there are other people who another Christ died for is ludicrous.

For Rajk999 to be floating this idea when he's spent years here berating people for not listening to him "preaching the words of Jesus" and to watch him harangue sonship for his extra biblical notions, is hypocrisy, error and RHP forum gold of the highest purity.

Have I made myself clear?

Originally posted by Rajk999
I think part of the problem Christians have is their interpretation of the Genesis creation account. Many take it literally eg the whole universe with the billions of galaxies were all created at the same time. I think that is an incorrect interpretation.

It is more likely that God created our galaxy all at the same time while the rest of the universe was ...[text shortened]... are only those from our Milky Way galaxy. No stars from other galaxies rule our skies by night.

The problem here is your "biblical perspective".

Originally posted by FMF
To continue your metaphor of "the throne", if I may ask, in your imagination, is the torture facility/furnace in the same building as "the throne" and can the angry, vengeful supernatural being see the non-Christians being kept permanently burning alive while sitting upon it?

I think your question seems to make some presuppositions.

1. God should not be angry with sin and sinners.

Explain why God should not be angry with sin. I mean you seem to be upset with what you deem is unjust (the punishment of sinners).

Why do you think you have a right to be morally unhappy with something but God our Creator does not?

2.) Your question assumes God should not take revenge upon sinners.

You'd have to convince us that vengfulness and God are incompatible realities.

3.) Then you're concerned that God would enact punishment forever.

But I would like to know if you would, if you could, continue making God out to be more evil than yourself forever. We see no let up in your devising your accusations against Jesus Christ.

I see no reason to think if He came a hundred times to earth, each of those one hundred occurences you would be in the angry crowd crying out "Crucify, Crucify Him!"

Since you don't now if death is the end of existence personally, by personal experience, you don't know if perpetual anger against God will not be met with perpetual vengeance from God against you.

This idea of sinners who refuse to repent being "frozen" in perpetual unholiness and rebellion (even though physical death claims them) may be to basis of the verse saying the unsaved remain as they are and the saved are processed into what conforms to God's will.

" Let him who does unrighteousness do unrighteousness STILL; and let him who is filthy be filthy STILL;

and let him who is righteous do righteousness STILL; and let him who is holy be holy STILL." (Rev. 22:11)

If you really wish to rebel from now on forever, you should not be surprised that the Man on the throne (Who also shed His blood that you'd be reconciled to God) judge from now on, forever.

Originally posted by divegeester
You seem to be deliberately missing my point, which is that it's not biblical so cannot be claimed as true based, as Rajk999 says, on a "Biblical perspective".

To be clear, I'm not arguing that life on other planets is not possible or likely or whatever, I'm arguing that it is not Biblical. Furthermore to float the premise that there is a "Biblical p ...[text shortened]... ons, is hypocrisy, error and RHP forum gold of the highest purity.

Have I made myself clear?

I read where Rajk said life on other planets was 'not' non biblical but didn't read where he wrote it was supported in the bible. Did I miss that? (He even said life on other planets had nothing to do with Christianity).

The premise that life on other planets would need to have their own saviour was again not a 'biblical perspective' (obviously not). Can you link me to the person who said it was?

If I was to argue for the existence of helicopters I likewise wouldn't claim it was biblically supported, but would be right in claiming the bible didn't say their existence was untrue.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
I read where Rajk said life on other planets was 'not' non biblical but didn't read where he wrote it was supported in the bible. Did I miss that? (He even said life on other planets had nothing to do with Christianity).

The premise that life on other planets would need to have their own saviour was again not a 'biblical perspective' (obviously n ...[text shortened]... cally supported, but would be right in claiming the bible didn't say their existence was untrue.

Yes Jajk999 said it was his "biblical perspective".

Originally posted by FMF
Can your imaginary mangod see his perpetual thoughtcrimes furnace from his "throne"?

I don't know what you mean by my "imaginary mangod". So dignifying the questions would appear to some to mean Christians compliance with your unbelief. It is your unbelief which imagines the unrealistic.

The essence of your complaint is that God appears to you to be fidgety, picky, and a dictator ready to pounce every thought with torture. The late Christopher Hitchens was fond of this argument. He accused God of being like the dictator of North Korea who won't leave people alone even to THINK without fear of punishment.

I find this line of criticism to be really disgusting. It is hard to convey how low level this accusation is. And in one post of a few paragraphs I won't attempt to show why.

But I should say something here. For the Great Physician to go to the root of our problems it absolutely behooves the sinner that He have the skill to penetrate His healing to a very minute level of our thoughts, motives and intentions. For God to really save me required His complete knowledge of my inclincations, motives, leanings, reasonings, imaginations, tendencies, even my subconscious mind.

The effect of the past, even down to babyhood, contains factors which influence my acts. What then appears undesireable to some is quite welcomed to others. We're glad that His knowledge of our whole beings is totally thorough.

I suppose if one does not appreciate the love of God one is only left with the resentment that his sinful life does not enjoy privacy from the Divine.

I see it differently. Great LOVE comes with great insight and great understanding.

Anyway, the complaint that God allows the sinner no thought privacy and punishes for fleeting thoughts, I think speaks less about God's character and more about the complainer.

How one views our Creator's infinite knowledge and insight into His own designed creatures, whether with joy and comfort or resentment and terror, depends on one receives His offer to be effectively reconciled to His salvation of love, mercy and pardon.

I am RELIEVED that Jesus Christ's insight can penetrate the deepest parts of my whole being including my thought life. I find this a great comfort rather than a dread.

Its Jesus Who knows !

Can your imaginary mangod see his perpetual thoughtcrimes furnace from his "throne"?

The uniting of Man / God is not imaginary.
Neither is God-man imaginary.

There is something which is imaginary. That is that you morally rise above God and can pass a more righteous judgment against God than vica versa. That is imaginary.

How could He give you this ability if He did not have it to give ?
How was the Creator to make you more right than Himself ?

Of all the minds qualified to pronounce injustice on the part of God, the mind of Jesus seems to me to be the most equipped to do so.

Why don't I ever see Jesus agree with you on this point ?
He certainly demonstrated fairness, mercy, rightness, purity far beyond what you and I manifest.

He had the whole Old Testament to draw His lessons from. Jesus spoke of His "Righteous Father". This is a far cry from your hurled accusations that suggest that you're ethically capable to sit in judgment of God of the New Testament.

Maybe you could start by showing me one iota of evidence of Jesus correspondingly condemning God along the same lines as you have in this "thought-crime" dictator accusation.