weeping and gnashing of teeth

Originally posted by sonship
Its not a quote. it is an exposed attitude.

ie. "There is no absolute truth. My view is the absolute truth " [ paraphrased - not a quote ]

I have a big mouth. I say a lot of stuff. I write a lot of words. So why are you not addressing my words? Why are you making up words of your own and then having a go at them instead? You aren't "debunking" anything by sending your emotional little straw men into battle for you. There have been big discussions in which I laid out my points of view and observations on morality - its source, its logic, its application - and you remained conspicuously silent. Now you want to hide behind the skirts of dj2becker's trolling routine? .😉

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
[b]You'll see that many refuse to accept many things in scripture that they don't like...
Our likes and dislikes don't change reality.

This is true.

Many refuse to accept the fact that in Matthew 13:36-43 Jesus makes clear the dividing line between those who will be thrown into "the blazing furnace" vs. those who "will shine like the sun in th ...[text shortened]... tell, you are one of those who refuse to accept this fact. Do you not see the hypocrisy in this?[/b]

This is true.

Many refuse to accept the fact that in Matthew 13:36-43 Jesus makes clear the dividing line between those who will be thrown into "the blazing furnace" vs. those who "will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father":

That dividing line is "all who do evil" which of course is "everyone who commits sin".

From what I can tell, you are one of those who refuse to accept this fact. Do you not see the hypocrisy in this?

ToO, Do you feel that the passage presents something problematic to teaching of Justification by Faith ?

If you think it does, elaborate what is the problem as you see it.

Originally posted by FMF

I have a big mouth. I say a lot of stuff. I write a lot of words. So why are you not addressing my words?
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I have other things to do tonight beside go through the threads to locate the exchange.


Why are you making up words of your own and then having a go at them instead?
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I don't want to spend a lot of time to locate the specific recent thread on this.
You can disagree if you want.


You aren't "debunking" anything by sending your emotional little straw men into battle for you.
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Your inconsistency on relativism and insistence that it doesn't apply to you was exposed.
Fetch did it.


There have been big discussions in which I laid out my points of view and observations on morality - its source, its logic, its application - and you remained conspicuously silent. Now you want to hide behind the skirts of dj2becker's trolling routine? .
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Doesn't save your argument. Yea, you laid out points very well. And the inconsistency was exposed.
Noticing it is not hiding behind anybody. It is simply taking note that bunk was de-bunked.

Originally posted by FMF

dj2becker's trolling routine? .

His trolling routine ?
Pot calls kettle black.

I ask again if I didn't see the answer. What is he doing that you haven't been doing for years here ?

Originally posted by sonship
Your inconsistency on relativism and insistence that it doesn't apply to you was exposed.
Fetch did it.

When is this supposed to have happened? Which thread?

Originally posted by sonship
Its not a quote. it is an exposed attitude.

ie. "There is no absolute truth. My view is the absolute truth " [ paraphrased - not a quote ]

"My view is the absolute truth"

This is of course the diametric opposite of my point of view.

What is your purpose with this complete misrepresentation?

Originally posted by FMF
When is this supposed to have happened? Which thread?

The thread I would have to labor some to locate.
Maybe you know which one I mean and just disagree.

Originally posted by sonship
I ask again if I didn't see the answer. What is [dj2becker] doing that you haven't been doing for years here ?

If you don’t like the way dj2becker posts and you don't like the way I post for more or less the same reason, then that is your prerogative.

Originally posted by sonship
The thread I would have to labor some to locate.
Maybe you know which one I mean and just disagree.

I am not aware of any thread, ever, where I argued that "my view is the absolute truth" because I have never said such a thing - indeed I have said the opposite many times. You ought to track it down sonship (if you are convinced it exists) because until you do you are peddling a fiction.

Originally posted by FMF
I am not aware of any thread, ever, where I argued that "my view is the absolute truth" because I have never said such a thing - indeed I have said the opposite many times. You ought to track it down sonship (if you are convinced it exists) because until you do you are peddling a fiction.

Its not a quote that you have said. Its an attitude you manifest.
And I think it was exposed.

Originally posted by FMF
If you don’t like the way dj2becker posts and you don't like the way I post for more or less the same reason, then that is your prerogative.

My only real interest is to observe how you react to being fed some of your own style of questioning and critiquing.

Originally posted by sonship
My only real interest is to observe how you react to being fed some of your own style of questioning and critiquing.

As I said, if you don’t like the way dj2becker and I post, then I welcome you exercising your right to say so. I have also told you which types of sonship posts I don't care for, and which types I do.

Originally posted by sonship
Its not a quote that you have said. Its an attitude you manifest.

It's the complete opposite of what my view is. What is your purpose pretending otherwise?

Originally posted by sonship

ToO wrote:

Many refuse to accept the fact that in Matthew 13:36-43 Jesus makes clear the dividing line between those who will be thrown into "the blazing furnace" vs. those who "will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father":

That dividing line is "all who do evil" which of course is "everyone who commits sin".

From what I can tell, you are one of those who refuse to accept this fact. Do you not see the hypocrisy in this?

This verse simply highlights that the overcomers who rise to the level of what OUGHT to be among Christians are rewarded in the kingdom.

It also is part of a parable teaching that FALSE disciples will be collected into groups or "bundles" and go into the fire of punishment.

ToO is correct that a clear dividing line is drawn. But not every teaching has to include ALL aspects of Christ's dealings with His saints. And those defeated yet positionally righteous Christians are simply not included in this particular passage. They are included elsewhere as we will see.

Now we compare First Corinthians 3:14,15 with Matthew 13:36-46

"If anyone's [of Christ's saints] work which he has built upon the foundation remains, he will receive a reward;

If anyone's [of Christ's saints] work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved yet so as through fire."

In Matthew 13:36-46 "the righteous will shine forth like the sun in the kingdom of their Father" are the saints of Christ who receive that as a reward. They are normal overcoming believers who rise to the level of what OUGHT to be for a disciple.

Those defeated yet, justified Christians who suffer loss, but are saved yet so as through fire are simply not mentioned specifically in Matthew 13:43. Who are mentioned are false believers.

The fact that the tares are collected into bundles and burned may indicate that there are different kinds of false believers.

" Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, Collect first the tares and bind them into bundles [plural] to burn them up, but the wheat gather into my barn." (Matt. 13:30)

I propose here:

1.) The righteous who shine forth as the sun in the kingdom are the saved and rewarded Christians.

2.) The causes of stumbling and workers of lawlessness are the unsaved false Christians.

3.) The justified Christians who suffer loss, are not rewarded yet are saved, are just not specifically mentioned in Matt. 13:43.

Defeated yet justified Christians ARE mentioned in the following parable.

" Therefore salt is good; but if even the salt becomes tasteless, with what will its saltiness be restored? It is fit neither for the land nor for the manure pile; they will throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear." (Luke 14:34,35)

1.) The land would be the earth including the kingdom.
2.) The manure pile represents eternal damnation.
3.) To be thrown out is neither the kingdom of God on earth NOR the eternal punishment.
It is evidently a third place of shame yet not of being forever unsaved.

Fate #3 represents those who suffer loss, but are saved (being justified) yet so as through fire. They were fit neither for the kingdom reward nor for eternal punishment. But they are disciplined with shame and being "thrown out" in relation to the millennial kingdom.