The Moon and Design

Originally posted by chaney3
Tell me, what caused the matter that caused the big bang?

Remember: This is the science forum. If you want to discuss things with the rules of religion then do so in the spiritual forum.

If you say that nothing can be created from nothing. And you suddenly say that the god was not created. Then you have to explain this scientifically.

Remember: Scientifically! Not with any religious reasoning!

You have already been disproved about the eclipse/designer part, so be very careful!

Originally posted by chaney3
I think you are being illogical to say that something can exist without having a cause.

**except God, of course.

Do you know 'what' went bang, in the big bang? If yes, where did it come from?

Come sir, you destroy your own argument. You can't say everything needs a cause,......except God.

If you allow for exceptions then you can't say 'everything.' - If God could be 'forever existent' then why not the universe?

Originally posted by chaney3
** yes, I researched causation.

Another lie. (or your research skills are pathetic).

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Remember: This is the science forum. If you want to discuss things with the rules of religion then do so in the spiritual forum.

If you say that nothing can be created from nothing. And you suddenly say that the god was not created. Then you have to explain this scientifically.

Remember: Scientifically! Not with any religious reasoning!

You have already been disproved about the eclipse/designer part, so be very careful!

Is this the science forum, or the atheist forum? Please specify.

I already made my case, the universe was caused. I don't believe that the universe has just always existed.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Another lie. (or your research skills are pathetic).

Do you believe that the universe has always existed? Or more specifically, whatever went 'bang' in the big bang, has that always existed?

Originally posted by chaney3
Is this the science forum, or the atheist forum? Please specify.

It is the science forum. Science is a methodology. It requires evidence and logic and reason. You have provided none of those.

I already made my case, the universe was caused.
Your 'case' was badly made. Your understanding of the things you used to make your case is lacking so your conclusions were wrong.

I don't believe that the universe has just always existed.
But that is a belief. Take it to spirituality.

Originally posted by chaney3
Do you believe that the universe has always existed?

I hold no belief on the matter.

Or more specifically, whatever went 'bang' in the big bang, has that always existed?
Nothing went bang. The name is something of a misnomer. It refers to rapid expansion in the early universe. What came before it is unknown. Anyone who claims otherwise is lying. (keeping in mind that a knowledge is true, rationally justified belief, and there is no possible way rationally justify such a belief)

Originally posted by chaney3
Do you believe that the universe has always existed? Or more specifically, whatever went 'bang' in the big bang, has that always existed?

What I charged you with lying about was your claim to have done your research on causation. If you had actually done your research you would know that your claim that everything must be caused is unfounded and not based on science. Science has not found any evidence that causation is universal. In fact, science strongly suggests it is far from universal and is actually responsible for only a minority of events.

Originally posted by chaney3
I think you are being illogical to say that something can exist without having a cause.

**except God, of course.

in what way illogical? Explain HOW it is illogical please... If you cannot, then it is logical.
And if there is at least one exception, why is it impossible for there to be others?

Do you know 'what' went bang, in the big bang? If yes, where did it come from?

the big bang theory doesn't say there was a 'bang' and there was no 'bang' nor an explosion at the big bang. The big bang theory is a misnomer and was so named by those who wanted to ridicule the theory but then the name stuck despite it saying exactly what the theory says did NOT happen. I say again; you really need to make sure you know what a scientific theory actually says before you can sensibly criticize it.

Originally posted by chaney3
Is this the science forum, or the atheist forum? Please specify.

I already made my case, the universe was caused. I don't believe that the universe has just always existed.

"Is this the science forum, or the atheist forum? Please specify."
Don't you even know? It is described as "Scientific discussion and debate.". Really, didn't you know?

"I already made my case"
Your case, perhaps, but it has nothing to do with science. And this is the science forum.

How can you see a designer in the Earth/Moon system producing 'such perfect solar eclipses' in a system with such chaotic orbital elements? It's rather a proof that a designer wasn't even near.

"I don't believe that the universe has just always existed."
I agree. And *this* is science! Not just some religious quasi-philosophy geek who want to see a designer where no designer is to be found.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
"Is this the science forum, or the atheist forum? Please specify."
Don't you even know? It is described as "Scientific discussion and debate.". Really, didn't you know?

"I already made my case"
Your case, perhaps, but it has nothing to do with science. And this is the science forum.

How can you see a designer in the Earth/Moon system producing 's ...[text shortened]... ome religious quasi-philosophy geek who want to see a designer where no designer is to be found.

If you agree that the universe has NOT always existed, then logically, it was caused into existence. You can dispute the 'cause', or a 'causer', but something did come from nothing.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
"Is this the science forum, or the atheist forum? Please specify."
Don't you even know? It is described as "Scientific discussion and debate.". Really, didn't you know?

"I already made my case"
Your case, perhaps, but it has nothing to do with science. And this is the science forum.

How can you see a designer in the Earth/Moon system producing 's ...[text shortened]... ome religious quasi-philosophy geek who want to see a designer where no designer is to be found.

By the way, atheists participate in the spirituality forum....so theists participate here, especially if one feels that God and science co-exist.
Atheists should not hold this forum hostage because of their non-belief.

Originally posted by chaney3
If you agree that the universe has NOT always existed, then logically, it was caused into existence.

Not so.
There are several other possibilities:
1. Time is finite. This seems practically inevitable given that time is a property of the universe.
2. Causation doesn't apply to the universe as a whole (just as it is not known to apply to most of the universe's parts).
3. He is wrong about the universe NOT always existing.

Originally posted by chaney3
By the way, atheists participate in the spirituality forum....so theists participate here, especially if one feels that God and science co-exist.
Atheists should not hold this forum hostage because of their non-belief.

Theists are welcome here, if they wish to discuss science. If they are here to preach religion (in an unscientific manner as you are doing) then you should really take it to spirituality.
If you are here to talk nonsense, then probably debates is a better place.
If you are here to learn (as you obviously desperately need to), then please try to read peoples posts. Most of the time you seem to be talking to people you imagined and not people who are here.

Originally posted by chaney3
If you agree that the universe has NOT always existed, then logically, it was caused into existence. You can dispute the 'cause', or a 'causer', but something did come from nothing.

According to which logic does this follow?