The Moon and Design

Originally posted by humy
yes; if we are so special and the whole universe is made for us, why make trillions of planets most of which will never have life on them and most of them will not ever be seen nor detected by humans via any means including via telescopes?

Fundies would just say we are all god's creatures in his eyes given proof there is live on other planets, which my guess is there will be life on any planet halfway suitable for such. Like Mars, of course now a dried out cinder of a world but seems it did have a long lived ocean of some sort leading to at least the possibility that life evolved there early on maybe choked out now but my guess is when people get there and start really probing deep underground they will find life there, bacteria of course but the exciting thing to me would be to suss out, assuming we find life on Mars or other bodies in the SS, is it based on DNA or does it have some other scheme, like a twisted box instead of a twisted ladder we have now, some different way of doing the same thing, storing information.

If they have DNA similar to ours, that would suggest a panspermia hypothesis as having strong evidence for being true.

That is to say, some interstellar cloud throws off gunk, prebiotic gunk, in the mix of stuff that became the cloud of dust and such forming around the sun before getting differentiated into separate planets but each planet recieving the same gunk. In that case, it definitely took here and we have at least a sample of one. But say we find DNA based life on Mars, then we have a sample of 2 of DNA stuff and if we find the same thing in the underground ocean of Europa for instance and now a sample of 3, a pattern starts emerging.

Of course all that is pipe dream for now but who knows where the space programs of the world will be like 100 years from now.

If all that happened the implications are there would be life like ours more or less, on many worlds in say 20 light years of Earth maybe more.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
"...only to put life on one of them."
As we, mere mortal scientists, know about. Yet.

Or do you really think that any findings of extra terrestrial life is a proof of no god?

As an atheist, the existence of aliens on other planets (which by probability alone is an absolute certainty) has no bearing on my disbelief in the divine.

I would say though that the discovery of aliens on other planets would bring into question God, as defined by Christianity.

Originally posted by humy
yes; if we are so special and the whole universe is made for us, why make trillions of planets most of which will never have life on them and most of them will not ever be seen nor detected by humans via any means including via telescopes?

I have put that question (previously) to Christians in the spirituality forum. Most avoid answering, or else tender some wishy washy response about God's divine plan that is beyond our understanding.

Also worth noting, that if it wasn't for the extinction of the dinosaurs, man wouldn't even be special on this planet, if here at all.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
As an atheist, the existence of aliens on other planets (which by probability alone is an absolute certainty) has no bearing on my disbelief in the divine.

I would say though that the discovery of aliens on other planets would bring into question God, as defined by Christianity.

The Vatican has already commented on this, saying if aliens exist elsewhere in the universe, then God created them too.

I see no reason to dispute that position.

Originally posted by chaney3
The Vatican has already commented on this, saying if aliens exist elsewhere in the universe, then God created them too.

I see no reason to dispute that position.

Are you Catholic now?!

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Are you Catholic now?!

Lol....no.
I just agree with their comment.

Originally posted by chaney3
Lol....no.
I just agree with their comment.

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

How does that work with aliens living in a galaxy far far away?

Originally posted by chaney3
The Vatican has already commented on this, saying if aliens exist elsewhere in the universe, then God created them too.

I see no reason to dispute that position.

But the ultimate question is: Who designed God?
and: Who created the Designer?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
But the ultimate question is: Who designed God?
and: Who created the Designer?

God is an uncaused being, who caused everything else into existence.

He must have always existed because if there were a time when nothing existed, then nothing could have been caused. You cannot get something from nothing, and we know that the universe was caused.

** yes, I researched causation.

Originally posted by chaney3
...because if there were a time when nothing existed, then ....

stop right there; anyone with intelligence that has understood modern scientific cosmology theory would know and tell you it doesn't say there existed a point in time when nothing existed. Nobody who truly understand and accepts the big bang theory and the whole of modern physics would believe there existed a point in time when nothing existed; there always existed something at all points in time.
Thus your whole reasoning is based on a delusional warped false belief (and sadly an all-to-common layperson one) of what the science says.

Originally posted by humy
stop right there; anyone with intelligence that has understood modern scientific cosmology theory would know and tell you it doesn't say there existed a point in time when nothing existed. Nobody who truly understand and accepts the big bang theory and the whole of modern physics would believe there existed a point in time when nothing existed; there always exi ...[text shortened]... usional warped false belief (and sadly an all-to-common layperson one) of what the science says.

If you are saying that something always existed, then I'm saying 'that something' was caused.

It did not come from nothing, it was caused.

Originally posted by chaney3
....It did not come from nothing,....

-and nobody that has understood the science says it did come from 'nothing'.
What is the PREMISE of your assumption that something having no cause still means it must have 'come' from something/nothing?
Where is the logical contradiction in BOTH something having NO cause and that something NOT coming from something/nothing because it didn't 'come'? If there is no such logical contradiction then it must be logically possible.

+ nobody with intelligence who has understood the science is claiming nor believing something came from nothing.

To summarize;
1, at all points in time there existed something.
2, something never came from nothing.
3, both 1 and 2 above are logically consistent with the big bang.

Originally posted by humy
what is the PREMISE of your assumption that something having no cause still means it must have 'come' from something?
Where is the logical contradiction in BOTH something having NO cause and that something NOT coming from something/nothing because it didn't 'come'?

+ nobody with intelligence who has understood the science is claiming nor believing something came from nothing.

I said that everything has a cause......except God, who caused everything. It is illogical to presume that God is not eternal, because then there would have truly been a time when nothing existed, which is also illogical.

Everything has a cause. And it all WAS caused....by God.

Tell me, what caused the matter that caused the big bang?

Originally posted by chaney3
I said that everything has a cause......except God, who caused everything. It is illogical to presume that God is not eternal, because then there would have truly been a time when nothing existed, which is also illogical.

Everything has a cause. And it all WAS caused....by God.

Tell me, what caused the matter that caused the big bang?

What is the PREMISE of your assumption that everything must have cause? Where is the logical contradiction in there existing something without a cause?

Tell me, what caused the matter that caused the big bang?

nobody who understands the science is claiming nor believing that 'matter' caused the big bang. You really need to first understand what a scientific theory actually says before you can sensibly criticize it.

Originally posted by humy
What is the PREMISE of your assumption that everything must have cause? Where is the logical contradiction in there existing something without a cause?

Tell me, what caused the matter that caused the big bang?

nobody who understands the science is claiming nor believing that 'matter' caused the big bang. You really need to first understand what a scientific theory actually says before you can sensibly criticize it.

I think you are being illogical to say that something can exist without having a cause.

**except God, of course.

Do you know 'what' went bang, in the big bang? If yes, where did it come from?