Are clergy economically productive?

Originally posted by sh76
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arguendo

Your "for the sake of argument" topic is equivalent to discussing what would happen if pink elephants took over the world.

Originally posted by Eladar
Your "for the sake of argument" topic is equivalent to discussing what would happen if pink elephants took over the world.

It's probably more accurate to say that my for the sake of argument" topic is equivalent to discussing what would happen if pink elephants did NOT take over the world.

Originally posted by sh76
Let's assume arguendo that you don't believe in the narrative of any one particular religion.

Is it nevertheless productive to cater to people's perceived spiritual needs? Money donated to churches and redistributed when spent or given away by the church would seem to have a similar economically stimulative effect (maybe even more so) to other forms of comme ...[text shortened]... if the congregant only "needs" or "enjoys" the services due to his belief in a false narrative?

I suppose it would depend on what they are teaching.

For example, if they were successfully teaching people to be moral and upright citizens, this could wind up saving society a vast fortune.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

I agree.
You replied to the second of my posts where I am trying to establish
what he (Eladar) means by "economically productive".. My example
was to show money changing hands without any economic benefit
ie nothing produced (apart from the tenuous "service"😉

Originally posted by whodey
I suppose it would depend on what they are teaching.

For example, if they were successfully teaching people to be moral and upright citizens, this could wind up saving society a vast fortune.

Good point, whodey! And one made with no sarcasm at all! 🙂

Originally posted by sh76
Good point, whodey! And one made with no sarcasm at all! 🙂

Sorry, it won't happen again.

Really a society is only as good as it's moral fiber. If you had a nation of convicts, the only solution to maintain order would be to build a wall around them and place them in jail cells. I think that is what the fascists on the left wants. They want complete control, and the more amoral people they can create the more than can justify their utopia of control and Marshall law.

This is why I think the left makes fun of those on the right when discussing morality. The left thinks that all that matters is taking money from the rich and giving it to the poor, when really the problem is the moral fabric of society. That means that those who are rich actually care about the poor and try to assist them.

Statistics show us that those who give to the poor are predominately those who practice their faith in God. Those that don't whine about how government should be doing it for them, and then blame the GOP for it not happening.

Just remember liberals.

Jail =

1. Free housing
2. Free medical
3. Free meals
4. Free and equal access to education
5. Equal and equal access to everything.
6. Gay pride marches every day!!

Just keep on keep'in on!! 😵

Originally posted by Eladar
If I pay you to read my stars, then yes you are economically productive.

How do you define "economically productive"?

Let me just add, morality is really the most important factor within society in order to keep it civil. As in the case of prison, dividing everything equally does not create morality, in fact, it does nothing to foster it.

And what are we teaching our children in our schools? Reading and writing? Math and science? Great, but does that effect the morality of any given society? No.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

1. Barter isn't money but is economic.

2. An economic system, for example money, simply makes it easier for people to trade what they have to fill the needs of others.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
How do you define "economically productive"?

Economically productive involves voluntary trading of goods and services. If a good/service is valued by its consumer, and traded for voluntarily, it is productive.

Originally posted by normbenign
Economically productive involves voluntary trading of goods and services. If a good/service is valued by its consumer, and traded for voluntarily, it is productive.

This is pretty much what I would have said. I don't think Socialists/Communists understand the idea because it involves freedom and individual choice.

Originally posted by normbenign
Economically productive involves voluntary trading of goods and services. If a good/service is valued by its consumer, and traded for voluntarily, it is productive.

I see, so:

- If I sell you a faulty TV or other faulty product or service (wittingly or unwittingly), I am being productive?
- Advertising (space) that is sold and paid for is productive?
- Any and all activities in the financial sector involving the trade of paper are productive?
- Any and all voluntary work or donations are NOT productive?
- Any and all goods and services paid for collectively through taxation are NOT productive? (including law and order, security, utilities, infrastructure etc. etc.)

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
I see, so:

- If I sell you a faulty TV or other faulty product or service (wittingly or unwittingly), I am being productive?
- Advertising (space) that is sold and paid for is productive?
- Any and all activities in the financial sector involving the trade of paper are productive?
- Any and all voluntary work or donations are NOT productive?
- An ...[text shortened]... ion are NOT productive? (including law and order, security, utilities, infrastructure etc. etc.)

Economically productive? Yes you are being economically productive.

It is part of the legal exchange of money.

As far as good paid for by taxes, this is money taken by force. I view any spending beyond the basic functions of the government directly spelled out in the Constitution is little more than a mafia protection racket.

Originally posted by whodey
Sorry, it won't happen again.

Really a society is only as good as it's moral fiber. If you had a nation of convicts, the only solution to maintain order would be to build a wall around them and place them in jail cells. I think that is what the fascists on the left wants. They want complete control, and the more amoral people they can create the more th ...[text shortened]... equal access to everything.
6. Gay pride marches every day!!

Just keep on keep'in on!! 😵

Fascists on the left is an incoherent statement. The fascists are authoritarian, nationalist, and right wing. No one, or at least no one sensible, is claiming that everyone on the right is a fascist. Not even everyone on the right who is authoritarian is fascist, it's a specific thing. Similarly there are authoritarians on the left, we normally refer to them as Stalinist. You are confusing two different things. There is the left/right divide and the authoritarian/liberal divide (where by liberal I mean thinks personal freedom is a good thing). Attempting to identify the left with Fascism is just poor rhetoric.