Light.....

@galveston75 said
Where did Russell ever say to worship Jesus ((( exactly ))) as we are to worship his Father Jehovah? Did he ever say they were both on the same level and we are to worship then on the same level?

Russell said Jesus retained his divinity. Are you saying there is more than one kind of divinity? Is that your bizarre argument?

Edit: I know your church discourages free thinking, but give it a shot.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Russell said Jesus retained his divinity. Are you saying there is more than one kind of divinity? Is that your bizarre argument?

Edit: I know your church discourages free thinking, but give it a shot.

Lol. Me saying bizarre things? I think you've get an award for that.
And the "church" you are saying that keeps me or any other JW from free thinking is just the opposite of your shallow knowledge of us.
Hummmm....that reminds me of something that was said, oh, a few thousand years ago by some slithering reptile that questioned the mother of us all. It was something like" Is it so that God said you cannot eat of the tree? That is a lie because if you do, your eyes are bound to be opened and you will become like God!"

Ring a bell? Is this what you are saying that JW's are being denied of? Becoming someone, say like you?

The thing you are miss my friend is the vast majority of JW's were not born and raised being a JW. Most were once members of the churches that hardly ever even opened their bibles and just blindly followed their preachers pagan backed teachings which are "clearly" condemned in the very bible they own but are never taught to use it. So who's blind here?

I could get any teenager from the Kingdom Hall that could run circles around you with their knowledge of the bible......

What a joke.

@galveston75 said
Lol. Me saying bizarre things? I think you've get an award for that.
And the "church" you are saying that keeps me or any other JW from free thinking is just the opposite of your shallow knowledge of us.
Hummmm....that reminds me of something that was said, oh, a few thousand years ago by some slithering reptile that questioned the mother of us all. It was something ...[text shortened]... dom Hall that could run circles around you with their knowledge of the bible......

What a joke.

The irony here sir is that I seem to know more about the early history of your church than you do yourself. That's not good.

And you appear to have missed the question. - Russell said Jesus retained his divinity. Are you saying there is more than one kind of divinity?

@galveston75

Of all the religions and denominations (cults) I have studied, yours has always stood out as the most unwholesome. Not only does it stifle free thinking and punish those who do, it also targets vulnerable people and projects a twisted version of scripture.

You yourself exemplify here everything negative about the Jehovah Witness church, in the way you exhibit a initially friendly veneer that quickly slips away once challenged and is replaced by an arrogant spite that thinks it speaks with absolute authority and that everyone who disagrees with you is somehow mentally challenged. This is strange of course as, in actuality, it is you who have been brainwashed by bizarre dogma that has very little to do with Scripture.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
@galveston75

Of all the religions and denominations (cults) I have studied, yours has always stood out as the most unwholesome. Not only does it stifle free thinking and punish those who do, it also targets vulnerable people and projects a twisted version of scripture.

You yourself exemplify here everything negative about the Jehovah Witness church, in the way ...[text shortened]... ity, it is you who have been brainwashed by bizarre dogma that has very little to do with Scripture.

Lol, Lol, Lol. Get away from me Satan!!!!!!!

@ghost-of-a-duke said
@galveston75

Of all the religions and denominations (cults) I have studied, yours has always stood out as the most unwholesome. Not only does it stifle free thinking and punish those who do, it also targets vulnerable people and projects a twisted version of scripture.

You yourself exemplify here everything negative about the Jehovah Witness church, in the way ...[text shortened]... ity, it is you who have been brainwashed by bizarre dogma that has very little to do with Scripture.

Yes, thats true. Here is a little known fact [very negative one too], about these JW people. They relish the thought of non-JWs burning in hell and / or being destroyed in Armageddon. They consider all people who are not a member of their church to be enemies of God. Even babies are considered to be of the Devil until they become a JW. This is why families are encouraged to cut ties with family members who are not members. They are truly the only sick Christian sect, very un-Christlike and bordering on evil.

@galveston75 said
I could get any teenager from the Kingdom Hall that could run circles around you with their knowledge of the bible......

Great. It should be child's play then for you to explain what Charles Russell meant by Jesus retaining his divinity.

It's hilarious you are physically unable to answer this question.

@galveston75 said
Lol, Lol, Lol. Get away from me Satan!!!!!!!

I appreciate you are out of touch with Scripture, but perhaps you should familiarize yourself with Matthew 16:23, as I think he could have been speaking directly to your church:

'Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

@galveston75 said

What a joke.

Jehovah Witnesses don't celebrate Halloween. I guess they don't appreciate random people knocking on their doors.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I appreciate you are out of touch with Scripture, but perhaps you should familiarize yourself with Matthew 16:23, as I think he could have been speaking directly to your church:

'Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

Although I agree with you on many things dealing with JW, but to be fair, the passage from Matthew is directed at all Christendom, bar none.

Peter is the denier of knowing Christ. Peter is technically the beginning of the Christian church in Rome, by having been the first pope. The history of Christianity shows how unlike Christ it has been.

The passage shows that Peter was trying to prevent Jesus from fulfilling his mission, which was really to show that one must be willing to physically die for what we believe. And yet, Judas Iscariot, who actually helped Jesus fulfill the mission, is historically considered the villain. The very scriptural fact that Judas took his own life afterwards is a show of taking up his own cross and following Christ, whereas all the other close disciples went into hiding. Peter stuck around for a while, only to deny knowing Jesus out of fear for his own skin. Not only once, but 3 times, before the rooster crowed, and then he too ran away to hide with the others. Of the remaining 11, only John, the disciple whom Jesus loved, had courage enough to show up at the crucifixion, as the others remained in hiding, fearing their own lives, while their Lord, Master, and Teacher was being executed for what He had tried to teach them. Principally, "Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul."

This may be considered ludicrous, and blasphemous, but the really wise will see things as they really happened. All Christians will be made to believe, as intentionally written in scripture, that Judas did it for the money. Yet, the throwing way of the 30 pieces of silver, followed by his own intentional death, ought to make things clear.

If Jesus calls Peter Satan for trying to talk Him out of the heavenly mission, what are we to really call Judas for assuring that Jesus went trough with it?

@pettytalk said
Although I agree with you on many things dealing with JW, but to be fair, the passage from Matthew is directed at all Christendom, bar none.

Peter is the denier of knowing Christ. Peter is technically the beginning of the Christian church in Rome, by having been the first pope. The history of Christianity shows how unlike Christ it has been.

The passage shows that P ...[text shortened]... the heavenly mission, what are we to really call Judas for assuring that Jesus went trough with it?

Irrelevant nonsense. People have to do the right thing.

God has his plan and nobody knows [neither should they care], about what is Gods plan. Thats Gods business and his duty to make His plan work.
- Peter was doing the right thing as far as he was concerned.
- Judas was doing the wrong thing knowingly.

Thats all that matters.
Peter is righteous and will be in the Kingdom of God.
Judas will be cast out.

All that postulating and analysing is nonsense and foolish people get led astray by their own false conclusions.

@galveston75

These threads have been a bit of a train wreck and I genuinely feel embarrassed for you. Faced with Charles Russell's comments about worshipping Jesus due to him retaining his divinity you first try to water down the meaning of worship, before inexplicably throwing the founder of your church out of the window, dismissing him as merely the first editor of the Watchtower. - I'm sure you think you are promoting JWs by your regurgitated postings here, but in reality you are doing more harm than good to your own church and pushing people even further away due to your inability to exercise freedom of thought and reasoning. I'm pretty sure JWs of higher intelligence would distance themselves from what you have posted here.

As for your predictable character, first you say to me, "OK my fine friend. I will answer this never nagging issue of worshiping Jesus. I'm only answering you because I respect you and your comments......." - but when challenged about your inability to explain what Russell meant by Jesus retaining his divinity dropped this veneer of civility and said, "Lol, Lol, Lol. Get away from me Satan!!!!!!!"

You are a member of a cult sir. Get out while you can.

@ghost-of-a-duke said

You are a member of a cult sir. Get out while you can.

Some years ago a JW pair [a mother and her teenage son] and I had a heated discussion. These people know very little if any about their roots as a sect and the goings on with Charles Russell etc. Anyway in the end I look at him and said, "..as soon as you can get out of this cult, and make sure you can live away from you parents because they will shun you and treat you as if you are Satan"

Who hasn't wanted to be in a cult, in the darkness‽

@of-ants-and-imps said
Who hasn't wanted to be in a cult, in the darkness‽

Cliff Richard.