Will the EU clamp down on immigration?

Originally posted by Rank outsider
Oh all right, three if you must!

Interestingly, I have a number of politically active Lib Dems as friends.

They argued vigorously with me that PR was essential for true democracy for years and years.

Now, suddenly, they have gone strangely quiet on this topic.

In a nutshell, I think that explains their demise at the next election.

I think your Lib Dem friends are (or were) correct and are worried without a good reason. Most of the European systems with proportional representation have some party more or less equivalent to the UKIP (anti-immigration, anti-Europe, pro-idiocy, etc.) but they tend to be marginalized because other parties don't want to work with them. However, since the Lib Dems woefully squandered their opportunity to fix the broken UK political system it doesn't look likely that electoral reform will happen any time soon.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
I think your Lib Dem friends are (or were) correct and are worried without a good reason. Most of the European systems with proportional representation have some party more or less equivalent to the UKIP (anti-immigration, anti-Europe, pro-idiocy, etc.) but they tend to be marginalized because other parties don't want to work with them. However, since t ...[text shortened]... oken UK political system it doesn't look likely that electoral reform will happen any time soon.

ENGLAND IS FULL

Originally posted by redbadger
ENGLAND IS FULL

Then go back to Angeln where you came from

Originally posted by redbadger
ENGLAND IS FULL

In what sense?

Originally posted by redbadger
ENGLAND IS FULL

Is that why so many English people migrate to other countries? Is that why so many retire to warmer climes? Do you think English people should be allowed to have homes in Spain or Portugal?

Originally posted by whodey
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/11/28/uk-britain-politics-immigration-cameron-idUKKCN0JC00J20141128

Looks like England is leading the charge to curtail immigration on the basis that they cannot sustain the population economically.

I hope we can clamp down on right wing morons from the US posting on anything we can read.

Originally posted by redbadger
ENGLAND IS FULL

Full of morons. I agree.

Originally posted by shavixmir
Full of morons. I agree.

Yeh, England is decidedly left wing.

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/nov/25/in-the-heart-of-the-heart-of-the-country-by-william-h-gass-review

“In 1833, Colin Goodykoontz, an itinerant preacher with a name from a fairytale, summed up the situation in one Indiana town this way: Ignorance and her squalid brood. A universal dearth of intellect. Total abstinence from literature is very generally practised ... Croaking jealousy; bloated bigotry; coiling suspicion; wormish blindness; crocodile malice!” The narrator resumes: “Things have changed since then, but in none of the respects mentioned.”

Originally posted by finnegan
Is that why so many English people migrate to other countries? Is that why so many retire to warmer climes? Do you think English people should be allowed to have homes in Spain or Portugal?

That depends on how it goes for the locals. If the English people who are going over there, or buying second homes there, are driving up property prices so Spanish and Portuguese people can't afford them then that's a problem. I don't think that that is quite what's happening in the U.K., it's not immigrants pushing up house prices - it's the absence of council houses putting a check on what the Rachman's of this world can demand in rent. House prices and rents haven't gone mad because of immigrants, but there is a housing shortage which needs addressing (on brown field sites) and the government's solution is this unethical move to expel people if they don't find work within six months. As if anyone from the E.U. would come to Britain for the benefits.

Originally posted by DeepThought
That depends on how it goes for the locals. If the English people who are going over there, or buying second homes there, are driving up property prices so Spanish and Portuguese people can't afford them then that's a problem. I don't think that that is quite what's happening in the U.K., it's not immigrants pushing up house prices - it's the absence o ...[text shortened]... find work within six months. As if anyone from the E.U. would come to Britain for the benefits.

I doubt that Brits who retire or have a second home in Spain or Portugal are driving the general housing market anywhere. They don't generally buy in ghettos, but on large isolated lots. The immigrants to the UK, and most other EU nations are from outside, and do locate in or create ghettos. Competition for housing in those areas probably drives costs higher.

I don't know how unethical it is to ask immigrants to find work. After all, although it is seldom stated, immigrants are permitted in an attempt to finance already bloated and nearly bankrupt social programs. The immigrants aren't coming from EU nations, but from third world hellholes.

I'm curious about your suggestion of housing on brown field sites. In the US, even building housing on a former gas station is problematic, never mind a site where toxic manufacturing had taken place. Who would live there? Who would pay for the attempt at cleaning up the brown fields?

Originally posted by normbenign
I doubt that Brits who retire or have a second home in Spain or Portugal are driving the general housing market anywhere. They don't generally buy in ghettos, but on large isolated lots. The immigrants to the UK, and most other EU nations are from outside, and do locate in or create ghettos. Competition for housing in those areas probably drives costs h ...[text shortened]... ken place. Who would live there? Who would pay for the attempt at cleaning up the brown fields?

In the UK, the term 'brownfield' does not always mean contaminated. It can just mean any site which has previously been developed. I think this is different to the US usage.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/30/hardline-australia-confused-scandinavia-and-tense-russia-the-global-immigration-picture

A brief look at policies on migration is a range of countries - Russia, China, India, Pakistan, South Africa, Spain, Australia, ...

Originally posted by Rank outsider
In the UK, the term 'brownfield' does not always mean contaminated. It can just mean any site which has previously been developed. I think this is different to the US usage.

Thanks for the added information. Still, previously developed land has to be re-purposed, and that is often costly. I know that in both Cleveland and Detroit there are a great many residential lofts created in old warehouses and such. These are usually catering to high income folks who want to be a part of remaking neighborhoods to make themselves feel better.

Those projects seldom have any relationship to rising costs of low income housing. The cost of rehabbing and re-purposing are too high to target low income people.

Originally posted by normbenign
I doubt that Brits who retire or have a second home in Spain or Portugal are driving the general housing market anywhere. They don't generally buy in ghettos, but on large isolated lots. The immigrants to the UK, and most other EU nations are from outside, and do locate in or create ghettos. Competition for housing in those areas probably drives costs h ...[text shortened]... ken place. Who would live there? Who would pay for the attempt at cleaning up the brown fields?

The discussion currently being held in the UK is not about immigrants from outside the EU, but concerns immigrants from within the EU. The EU allows members to set their own asylum policies for immigrants from outside the EU, but its members have agreed upon the free movement of labour within the EU. David Cameron and the Tories, cowardly reeling from the UKIP's recent electoral gains, are now seeking to limit this inter-EU migration. You can compare this situation to e.g. Vermont seeking to limit immigration of American citizens from California because the Vermont state government doesn't like Latinos.

By the way, immigrants from outside the EU don't live in "ghettos" in Finland. There are no ghettos.