Originally posted by finnegan
It is really one or the other
It really is not and in any case, there is not one religious position and not one attitude to government. The entire argument is nonsense.
Would you really argue that the US as a slave state in the South, engaged in the genocide of American Indians, often llimited to the laws of the Wild West, economically ...[text shortened]... nder where this golden age of Christianity existed outside your foolish and semi senile fantasy?
There has been, nor can ever be, a "utopia" as you call it. World utopia is what statists hope for through such ideas as their one world order, not me. The world system is based upon money and power, and as the Bible says, the love of money is the root of all evil. However, America was founded by those of faith who sought refuge from such an oppressive system. But as is always the case, the statists take over and begin the same types of oppression that they had tried to escape. In fact, some of the Puritans began oppressive style governments themselves. The Salem witch trials are but one example. But today, in the mind of Hillary Clinton, the church must embrace abortion and gay marriage or they must be marginalized or destroyed. Seeking money and power is our sin nature. Whoever holds power is subject to it's vices. It is the Lord of the rings. And we see the same vice within the Founding Fathers. They struggled via a bloody revolution to overcome the oppression from the royal crown, only to pass the Alien and Sedition Acts which limited the freedom of their government to speak out against them. They had embraced what they had just got done fighting against.
I could never advocate a theocracy. We all saw what happened in Europe. The people were left ignorant of what the Bible said. The Bible was only translated in Latin, a language most did not know, and only priests were allowed to interpret it. This led to corruption and the selling of indulgences and Inquisitions, etc., which sparked the Protestant Reformation. It took one of those priests to take the morality of the Bible above the state and demand reform. So as we see, if we leave the interpretation of scripture up to those in power, they will only use it to their own advantage, much like leaving the interpretation of the Constitution up to partisan empty robed shills
Now as we see with Hillary, she talks of the church needing to change. What has begun now is an effort to infiltrate the church and change around its doctrines to suit the party. This is the only possible outcome of religion mixed with the state, even though the state may not take it over by name.
As for the GOP, they have nominated a foul mouthed man whore. What ever happened to family values? Now we see church leaders support him without shame. Now these same church leaders are looking towards the political party rather than Biblical doctrine.