US secondary education vs the world

Originally posted by Eladar
no longer allowed, whatever

...the US education system is definitely in decline....

But seriously, education is meaningful when there are meaningful and plentiful jobs/apprenticeships/value added skills training that follow that education. Most kids are smart enough to work out that their educational path is a total mismatch to what's on offer at the end of the line. What are the options for youth leaving school anyway? If you are in the west there is little in the way of manufacturing or industrial process work left for you. Trades are also in decline as it requires less man power to do more work and tradesmen are staying in longer as no one can afford to retire.

When the education boards finally acknowledge that what is taught in syllabi today to a large extent is mostly irrelevant to the needs of today's society, and that the system, a by-product of the industrial age has outlived its usefulness if maintained in its present form, then I fear that not only the US but also much of western public schooling systems will only get worse.

Originally posted by kmax87
...the US education system is definitely in decline....

But seriously, education is meaningful when there are meaningful and plentiful jobs/apprenticeships/value added skills training that follow that education. Most kids are smart enough to work out that their educational path is a total mismatch to what's on offer at the end of the line. What are the opt ...[text shortened]... fear that not only the US but also much of western public schooling systems will only get worse.

You mean homosexuality and acceptance of sexual orientation, along with Feminist Simone de Beauvoir’s critique of marriage—she called marriage “unjust” and “undesirable”. You mean this kind of teaching is mostly irrelevant to the needs of today's society? Go figure!😉

Originally posted by kmax87
If you are in the west there is little in the way of manufacturing or industrial process work left for you. Trades are also in decline as it requires less man power to do more work and tradesmen are staying in longer as no one can afford to retire.

When the education boards finally acknowledge that what is taught in syllabi today to a large extent is mos ...[text shortened]... fear that not only the US but also much of western public schooling systems will only get worse.

The schooling I did in Zambia would have been of little or no use in manual labour type manufacturing or industrial jobs and largely useless in trades jobs. If anything the schooling was better suited to more modern high skilled jobs. Where Zambia is currently missing out (and most other countries too) is in computer education. Touch typing is now more important than handwriting, and knowing how to do a Google search is absolutely critical. But for the future, a lot more people should learn basic programming. It should be as essential to a basic education as higher maths - if not more so. More people will find programming useful than calculus.

But the fact is that education shouldn't just be about usefulness. It should give a person general knowledge about the world and the ability to learn more. The US education system is noted for being remarkably poor for giving general knowledge.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Where Zambia is currently missing out (and most other countries too) is in computer education. Touch typing is now more important than handwriting, and knowing how to do a Google search is absolutely critical.....But the fact is that education shouldn't just be about usefulness. It should give a person general knowledge about the world and the ability to learn more....

The double edged sword of technology. Being a google detective, knowing how to extract 'useful' information is a skill that more people should develop, but developing that skill also tends to spoil the desire to actually learn anything.

I never grew up with technology. I am not a digital native, but I have seen a change in the way that people who are digital natives treat knowledge. Because information is always there, there seems to be less of a focus to actually be knowledgeable. Add to that the devices they are glued to en masse and you have a hard time convincing a clash of clans player that coding is a great pathway for them, given that after their first hour of coding activity all they can do is generate a line that generates geometric patterns. Once they discover that being a proficient coder will take as much effort as playing a brass instrument in the school band, they choose to do something else.

The problem with comparisons between high and lowly ranked OECD countries, is that in poorer countries people know in their dna that education is the way out of poverty and because of the competition around them, if given the opportunity they grasp education with both hands.

That's the problem with socialism. If you hand a person something or force it upon them, it isn't appreciated and it leads to apathy and rejection. If you make someone earn it, then the person will appreciate it.

Take socialism out of the equation and bring in competition. At the core this is the problem in the US.

Originally posted by kmax87
I never grew up with technology. I am not a digital native, but I have seen a change in the way that people who are digital natives treat knowledge. Because information is always there, there seems to be less of a focus to actually be knowledgeable.

Have you considered the possibility that that might be a good thing?
Throughout school I was always better than the average student at finding information I needed and preferred that skill to memorising everything. Similarly my sister used to excel at 'open book' tests. Increasingly it is the case that being able to find knowledge and evaluate it correctly is more important than memory or 'being knowledgeable'.
And I too grew up prior to technology.
My career however has been transformed completely from mostly writing my own code and solving my own problems to knowing how to copy someone elses code and find solutions to my problems. The fact is that I now am far more productive.

Originally posted by Eladar
That's the problem with socialism. If you hand a person something or force it upon them, it isn't appreciated and it leads to apathy and rejection. If you make someone earn it, then the person will appreciate it.

Take socialism out of the equation and bring in competition. At the core this is the problem in the US.

Having everybody appreciate what they don't have is worse than having everybody have it.
I hope you don't starve your kids so that they appreciate food more.

I notice your parents starved you of education in the hope you would appreciate it.
It didn't work.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Having everybody appreciate what they don't have is worse than having everybody have it.
I hope you don't starve your kids so that they appreciate food more.

I notice your parents starved you of education in the hope you would appreciate it.
It didn't work.

Your twisting his words. He said people that work for something appreciate it more than if it is handed to them. Then you slam him with education. You seem to have a calloused and dark heart.
You are the self made man, full of pride and thumb your nose at everyone else.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Your twisting his words.

No, I am just demonstrating that neither he nor you actually believe his words.

He said people that work for something appreciate it more than if it is handed to them.
True. He also used that as an argument for depriving people of things.

Then you slam him with education.
Something both of you obviously lack. This is a thread on education after all.

You seem to have a calloused and dark heart.
Not nearly as bad as yours. I don't lie all the time like you do.

You are the self made man, full of pride and thumb your nose at everyone else.
No, I only thumb my nose at people like you who are rude to me and who are ruining the world by refusing to learn or accept the truth. You don't seem to realise just how serious the Trump presidency is.

Originally posted by twhitehead
No, I am just demonstrating that neither he nor you actually believe his words.

[b]He said people that work for something appreciate it more than if it is handed to them.
True. He also used that as an argument for depriving people of things.

Then you slam him with education.
Something both of you obviously lack. This is a thread on educ ...[text shortened]... o learn or accept the truth. You don't seem to realise just how serious the Trump presidency is.[/b]

There is a difference between handing something to someone and automatically giving it to them. If they do not work for it, why do they deserve it?

If they don't want it, why force it on them?

Originally posted by Eladar
There is a difference between handing something to someone and automatically giving it to them. If they do not work for it, why do they deserve it?

If they don't want it, why force it on them?

Eladar goes on record saying that children, the disabled and the elderly should work for their money and benefits.

Originally posted by Eladar
There is a difference between handing something to someone and automatically giving it to them. If they do not work for it, why do they deserve it?

If they don't want it, why force it on them?

Do you, or do you not, starve your children?

Originally posted by twhitehead
Do you, or do you not, starve your children?

Of course not. If I wanted to teach them a lesson I would say if you don't do your chores you can't have dinner.

Originally posted by Eladar
Of course not. If I wanted to teach them a lesson I would say if you don't do your chores you can't have dinner.

So you do starve your children.

So if they continue to not do their chores, how long will you keep it up? After all, they don't deserve any food they didn't work for.