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@sh76 said
Just out of curiosity, did it not at all bother you in the Spring of 2020 that The Science® told us that the college kids in Wisconsin who went to outdoor bars in May were death cultists but The Science® also explained to us that the George Floyd protests did almost nothing to spread covid?

Did you watch these things and say "oh, yeah; that makes sense"?

I think you mean The Political Science®.

I haven't seen a lot of wavering in the scientific view which is that we should have had a short, sharp, nearly total quarantine for about 6 weeks to stop the disease in it's tracks (including closing the borders). Then ease up restrictions on anyone who could prove a negative test, implement precautions, and feature contact tracing while waiting for the vaccine.

Needless to say, the science was NOT followed.

If we HAD followed the science, that would have been good practice because this approach should also work for the NEXT pandemic. And the pandemic after that...

Unfortunately, we flunked.

@sh76 said
Obviously, neither of those black/white assumptions is accurate or really represents anybody's viewpoint. The truth, of course, lies somewhere in between. Nobody takes the position that "large human die-offs are no big deal" but equally, nobody can take the position that a million people should suffer drastically reduced quality of life to give one 87 year old an extra 3 years o ...[text shortened]... anti-science" cudgel used by many to attack those who disagree with them, as disingenuous nonsense.

Of course, but then you have to start talking about QALYs (quality-adjusted life years).

How much would you say your QoL was reduced in 2021 let's say, compared to the average year? Due to COVID, and then due to COVID + the government response.

__________Normal Year______COVID____ COVID+ Gov Response
sh76 QoL _____1______________?______________?

@spruce112358 said
Of course, but then you have to start talking about QALYs (quality-adjusted life years).

How much would you say your QoL was reduced in 2021 let's say, compared to the average year? Due to COVID, and then due to COVID + the government response.

__________Normal Year______COVID____ COVID+ Gov Response
sh76 QoL _____1______________?______________?

2021? None. I happen to be lucky enough to live in an area where most people lived their lives as normal in 2021. I also got my shots in February of that year and starting 14 days after the second shot, I dropped the mask (except where required) and lived my life as normal. My family also, more or less, lived normal lives in 2021.

Unfortunately, many people weren't as lucky as I was.

2020 is a more complex question. I only really judge covid reactions after about May or June, as until then, we were all just running around like chickens with our heads cut off and nobody really knew what to do.

I am convinced that part of the reason for the summer of fire that year was the fact that people were both traumatized and bored.

@sh76 said
2021? None. I happen to be lucky enough to live in an area where most people lived their lives as normal in 2021. I also got my shots in February of that year and starting 14 days after the second shot, I dropped the mask (except where required) and lived my life as normal. My family also, more or less, lived normal lives in 2021.

Unfortunately, many people weren't as lucky a ...[text shortened]... he reason for the summer of fire that year was the fact that people were both traumatized and bored.

If the governments lockdowns and mandates saved 1 million lives (10.8 YLL per death) and prevented secondary COVID morbidity in e.g. 6.4% = 21 million people, say, 5 years * 25% loss of QoL per year, then together that would be 37.2M QALYs saved.

Then the most one could justify to tax the entire US population with would be 37.2M/330M people for 1 year = an 11% reduction in everyone's quality of life. Say this was 2020, the year before the vaccines were available.

IF that's what happened, then what the government tried to do was reasonable.

But as usual, it all rests on what assumptions we are willing to make and what facts can be gleaned. In particular, we don't know how many deaths were actually avoided.

We know ~ 1 million died who would have lived about 10.8 [1] more years. How many of those could reasonably have been prevented? Even more interesting; should government take into account people battling against the restrictions, rendering them less effective?

Can government morally take that likelihood into account?

[1] Quast T, Andel R, Gregory S, Storch EA. Years of life lost associated with COVID-19 deaths in the USA during the first 2 years of the pandemic. J Public Health (Oxf). 2022 Aug 25;44(3):e353-e358. doi: 10.1093/pubmed/fdac057. PMID: 35640260; PMCID: PMC9213874.

@sonhouse said
@Wajoma
Why don't you tell us YOUR most unselfish act in say the last week.

I admit to be being selfish sunstroke, acting in ones own best interests.

I have been a volunteer in an organistion that calls on an immediate response anytime eg. during christmas dinner, mid bonk, 2.00am in the morning, getting in the car to go to work (forget it), halfway through mowing the lawn, plus 4 hours a week meeting/roll call, plus fundraising, plus many days of training. Not for a second did I pretend it was unselfish, doing service to the community, giving something back, a sacrifice for the greater good. I did it because it was fun riding around in the big red truck, cutting people out of car wrecks, and a great bunch of people to get on the grog with.

My question was to suziman (and yourself) who try to make selfishness out to be a bad thing, "What unselfish things do you do in a typical day?"

I knew suziman would be a chicken shyte kant and run away, why don't you answer.

@wajoma said
Reflecting on your typical day can you tell us about all the unselfish things you do.

You, with zero empathy, would be bored to tears, and because it denies your agenda, you would simply call me a liar.

@suzianne said
You, with zero empathy, would be bored to tears, and because it denies your agenda, you would simply call me a liar.

Already knew what your response would be. No need to come on here to confirm you're a chicken shyte kant running away

@wajoma said
I admit to be being selfish sunstroke, acting in ones own best interests.

I have been a volunteer in an organistion that calls on an immediate response anytime eg. during christmas dinner, mid bonk, 2.00am in the morning, getting in the car to go to work (forget it), halfway through mowing the lawn, plus 4 hours a week meeting/roll call, plus fundraising, plus many days of ...[text shortened]... a typical day?"

I knew suziman would be a chicken shyte kant and run away, why don't you answer.

Selfishness is when you do harm to others for your own personal pleasure or profit and it is very bad and according to most models self defeating.
What you’re describing is a happy confluence of goals between you and your towns reliance on volunteer firefighters. Selfishness doesn’t come into it
You and your ‘Libertarians’ can waffle until you drop but human beings are social animals and utopia is when the corrosive nature of cowboy capitalism gives way to our true cooperative nature

@wajoma said
Already knew what your response would be. No need to come on here to confirm you're a chicken shyte kant running away

You seem to think this kind of testosterone bravado will somehow scare me or shut me up. All I have to say to that is a big fat Good Luck, cowboy. I have nothing to prove to you. You wouldn't believe it anyway. You're worthless.

@suzianne said
You seem to think this kind of testosterone bravado will somehow scare me or shut me up. All I have to say to that is a big fat Good Luck, cowboy. I have nothing to prove to you. You wouldn't believe it anyway. You're worthless.

Truly a dumb kant. I've been inviting you to speak the hell up and all we hear is you making a lot of noise about how you're not going to say anything.

It (the suziman) can't possibly be any more retarded

Everything you do suziman is for your own selfish self interest, on the odd occasion people sacrifice themselves it never lasts long. We had a pretty good turnover at the brigade, people coming and going for their own reasons, inevitably the short timers were those claiming some kind of duty or martyrdom (that's the suziman right there) and when they didn't get the thanks and praise they expected??. Those that were honest about their motives they're the 20-25 year guys, all men BTW.

@kevcvs57 said
Selfishness is when you do harm to others for your own personal pleasure or profit and it is very bad and according to most models self defeating.
What you’re describing is a happy confluence of goals between you and your towns reliance on volunteer firefighters. Selfishness doesn’t come into it
You and your ‘Libertarians’ can waffle until you drop but human beings are soc ...[text shortened]... nd utopia is when the corrosive nature of cowboy capitalism gives way to our true cooperative nature

Not talking about libertarianism
Not talking about capitalism
There is no utopia other than the same stupid strawman that wildgrass tried only a few hours ago on her 'libertarian' thread.

Never denied the social aspect of human nature, on this point you're the least social most misanthropic person on this board because social people don't force each other. Use of force and threats of force is the definition of anti-social. You are anti-social. That you hold a view that your fellow man cannot be trusted with his own life, that your views and opinions are superior to his, that you would use goobermint thugs to force those views and opinions makes you the misanthrope.

You'll never turn that around kev bamboozle, until you renounce force.

@wajoma said
Not talking about libertarianism
Not talking about capitalism
There is no utopia other than the same stupid strawman that wildgrass tried only a few hours ago on her 'libertarian' thread.

Never denied the social aspect of human nature, on this point you're the least social most misanthropic person on this board because social people don't force each other. Use of force an ...[text shortened]... makes you the misanthrope.

You'll never turn that around kev bamboozle, until you renounce force.

And you’re still a lying and waffling right wing turd who dreams of a day when corporations can have all the power and all the force whilst the individual has no freedom or autonomy whatsoever.
Your game is so transparent, just another corporate bitch

@kevcvs57 said
And you’re still a lying and waffling right wing turd who dreams of a day when corporations can have all the power and all the force whilst the individual has no freedom or autonomy whatsoever.
Your game is so transparent, just another corporate bitch

Not talking about corporations either.

Futile flailing from the anti-social misanthropic cockroach known as kev bamboozle.

Edit: BTW this is kev bamboozle the corporate bytch pushing the corporate wuflu drugs, the greatest transfer of wealth from the average person to multi billion dollar corporations in the history of the world, most of it through force and threats of force. Is that the corporate bytch you're talking about?

@Wajoma
Well kudo's to you for your community service.

@suzianne said
Quora is being completely disingenuous with that question.

Getting an education does NOT tend to turn people into conservatives. If anything, it tends to turn them into liberals by virtue of the fact that it gives them a wider view of the world beyond themselves. They become far less focused on themselves and they start to appreciate value in people and institutions outside the narrow, narcissistic focus they've had their entire lives up to that point.

Replace 'turn them into liberals' with 'turn them into perverts like their groomer teachers', and you're onto something suzy. Remember the lap dances and licking strange peoples feet you ignored? Are they certificate skills?