Hitler

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Exactly so what it comes down to my illustrious friend is what seems more plausible to us, life from a muddy puddle, oops I mean a prebiotic soup or as a direct act of intelligent design. The problem with atheism is, is that it limits ones possibilities for we have already limited our search to unintelligent agencies, is it not so? Me thinks you sh ...[text shortened]... ed vestiges of atheism and put on the mantle of agnosticism, its more balanced and less extreme.

Agnostics are unsure whether or not God exists. I am certain that he doesn't.

As stated previously, I would rather like to believe in God, but 'rather liking something' to be real doesn't make it so.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Agnostics are unsure whether or not God exists. I am certain that he doesn't.

As stated previously, I would rather like to believe in God, but 'rather liking something' to be real doesn't make it so.

I can't believe you just said that. You are certain?!!
In the same way a theist may not be able to prove God exists, an atheist cannot prove He doesn't.
No room for an open mind? Seems intellectually stubborn!

Originally posted by chaney3
I can't believe you just said that. You are certain?!!
In the same way a theist may not be able to prove God exists, an atheist cannot prove He doesn't.
No room for an open mind? Seems intellectually stubborn!

An atheist doesn't believe in the existence of God, just as a teenager doesn't believe in the existence of Santa Claus. Would you call a teenager intellectually stubborn for being certain in his believe that Santa doesn't exist?

Being certain of something doesn't make somebody closed minded. If new evidence came to light of God's existence and i was convinced by it, I would change my mind.

Edit. Sorry to be blunt, but please do not respond to my post unless completely sober.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
An atheist doesn't believe in the existence of God, just as a teenager doesn't believe in the existence of Santa Claus. Would you call a teenager intellectually stubborn for being certain in his believe that Santa doesn't exist?

Being certain of something doesn't make somebody closed minded. If new evidence came to light of God's existence and i w ...[text shortened]... mind.

Edit. Sorry to be blunt, but please do not respond to my post unless completely sober.

If you would be willing to change your mind about the existence of God with new evidence, then I disagree with your being 'certain' about His current non-existence. In MY opinion, which you will disagree with, you should believe that God 'probably' does not exist.
The word 'certain' seems to imply no room for evidence.

I am completely sober, and understand and respect your request.

Thank you sir.

Originally posted by chaney3
If you would be willing to change your mind about the existence of God with new evidence, then I disagree with your being 'certain' about His current non-existence. In MY opinion, which you will disagree with, you should believe that God 'probably' does not exist.
The word 'certain' seems to imply no room for evidence.

I am completely sober, and understand and respect your request.

Thank you sir.

Yes sir, It is clear that you are sober as your posts are reasonable and well argued.

Perhaps 'certain, to the best of my current knowledge' would be more agreeable to you? My certainty is by no means absolute to the extent that it excludes new information. Two further points I would make worthy of consideration:

1. Most theists I suspect would say they are certain God exists. Would you also say such theists are intellectually stubborn because of their certainty? And if not, why is an atheist closed minded for excluding the possibility of his existence while a theist is not closed minded for excluding the possibility of his non-existence?
2. All my knowledge of God is second hand. Everything I know comes from man, and this includes the bible and even the knowledge that the bible is the word of God comes from man. I am currently in my early 40's and nothing so far, in regards to knowledge of God, has come to be first hand, directly from God. Therefore believing in the Christian God is not belief in God at all but rather believing the word of other men that such a God exists.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Yes sir, It is clear that you are sober as your posts are reasonable and well argued.

Perhaps 'certain, to the best of my current knowledge' would be more agreeable to you? My certainty is by no means absolute to the extent that it excludes new information. Two further points I would make worthy of consideration:

1. Most theists I suspect would ...[text shortened]... d is not belief in God at all but rather believing the word of other men that such a God exists.

Would you say it is accurate enough to say you know less than one percent of everything there is to know?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Would you say it is accurate enough to say you know less than one percent of everything there is to know?

A sheep question.

(Too woolly).

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
A sheep question.

(Too woolly).

Would you at least concede the possibility there may well be evidence for God in the other 99% of knowledge that you don't possess?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Would you at least concede the possibility there may well be evidence for God in the other 99% of knowledge that you don't possess?

I have already stated that I am certain to the best of my current knowledge, and am willing to change my mind if new convincing information came to light.

How is what you are asking me not covered in the above?!

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Yes sir, It is clear that you are sober as your posts are reasonable and well argued.

Perhaps 'certain, to the best of my current knowledge' would be more agreeable to you? My certainty is by no means absolute to the extent that it excludes new information. Two further points I would make worthy of consideration:

1. Most theists I suspect would ...[text shortened]... d is not belief in God at all but rather believing the word of other men that such a God exists.

I understand your position, especially when it comes to the Bible. I have been criticized for my own doubts regarding the validity of the Bible.

As far as 'certainty', I still believe that proof is required in either case.

If a theist or Christian told me they were certain that God exists, I would expect and welcome proof of such a claim.

I have no problem saying that while I believe in a Creator, or God, it is simply a strong hunch. I would not be able to offer proof to anyone, but I strongly believe He is there. Furthermore, I don't understand Him.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
I have already stated that I am certain to the best of my current knowledge, and am willing to change my mind if new convincing information came to light.

How is what you are asking me not covered in the above?!

Would you agree that your current knowledge amounts to considerably less than one millionth of one percent of everything there is to know? (Just to put your degree of certainty into perspective.)

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Would you agree that your current knowledge amounts to considerably less than one millionth of one percent of everything there is to know? (Just to put your degree of certainty into perspective.)

Again, too woolly.

Why not answer your own question?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
To use Donald Rumsfeld spiel, where everything came from is a 'known unknown'.

As for your 2nd bit, how is what 'knitted together' exactly? Could you be a bit more specific Kelly?

The whole universe has to be setup properly or it doesn't work. From where our planet sets in relationship to everything from the moon to the sun and everything else, than all the things required down to the micro level.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
I believe only God has the right to orchestrate such an event.

So killing children is therefore not universally wrong?

You are clear about what you are saying here aren't you...?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke to Fetchmyjunk
Why not answer your own question?

60+ hours of silence from the otherwise active-on-the-forum Fetchmyjunk would suggest that either [1] he can't answer his own question or [2] he doesn't know why he is not answering it. 😛