Faith Reckoned as Righteousness

Since Adam fell God has had a three-fold demand upon man. Without meeting this demand of God we are condemned in His judgment.

Remember that tree of life was guarded by a cherubim with a flaming sword which turned in every direction to prevent man from approaching.

The cherubim represented the glory of God. There was the demand that man has now fallen short of the glory of God.

The sword to strike to death represented the righteousness of God. Man has become sinful falling short of both the glory and righteousness of God.

The flame of the sword represents the holiness of God. God is distinct and different from all other things that exist. It is a sacred difference which the Bible calls "holy". God alone is "holy" in His being.

Without the atoning sacrifice of the Son of God the demand of God's glory, the demand of God's righeousness, and the demand of God's holiness keep fallen man away and separated from coming to God.

Jesus Christ has met the three-fold demand of God upon the fallen race so that Jesus Christ becomes the very propitiation place where God and man may meet.

Here in Jesus Christ we can come to meet with God without being condemned by the law of God, without being slain by His righteous judgment and without being excluded by His holiness and glory.

" Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; Whom God set forth as a PROPITIATION PLACE through faith in His blood, ..." (Rom. 3:24,25a)

Originally posted by FMF
Having a small part of one's penis compulsorily cut off when still young is a proxy for good works according to your moral and spiritual mind map?

Missing the point much?

Yes, of course you do.

Anything to attack another Christian. It's all you do here. Tossing aside the point is little price to pay for another attempt at sticking it in yet another Christian, and the taking fake offense (by missing the point) is just a bonus for you, is that it?

We had this remark -

Having a small part of one's penis compulsorily cut off when still young is a proxy for good works according to your moral and spiritual mind map?
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What is circumcision ? To be brief circumcision is a sign ordained by God to signify something vital to His salvation. That is that the old man has to be cut off.

When Adam fell something developed into existence which man lived by instead of living dependent upon God. An independent soul-life emerged. It seems so normal to us and so much a part of us that we take it as what man was created to have.

This "old man", this fallen self centered nature has to be denied. It cannot be denied apart from the power of God working in man. Circumcism was the Old Testament symbol of man with God's help, putting away that thing which came into being from the fall of man.

In the New Testament this symbol is replaced and baptism instead stands for man Dying with Christ, Cutting off the old fallen nature, being buried with Christ and rising with Christ.

Circumcision and baptism both are signs pointing to this profound matter. What man developed from his fall has to be cut off, terminated, denied for God to dispense His life and nature into man.

In this passage we see that baptism in the new covenant stands now for the Old Testament circumcision.

"In Him [Christ] also you were circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands, in the putting off of the body of the flesh, in the circumcision of Christ,

Buried together with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised together with Him through the faith of the operation of God, who raised Him from the dead." (Col. 2:11,12)

There is something that has attached itself to man like a parasite, a leech, that needs to be stripped off. To participate in God's salvation His operation and our cooperation must terminate that additional foreign "thing" called the fallen man - the flesh which man became at the fall of Adam.

Circumcision and baptism are pointers to this "thing" being removed from man's being that man may be joined to God.

FMF: Having a small part of one's penis compulsorily cut off when still young is a proxy for good works according to your moral and spiritual mind map?

Originally posted by Suzianne
Missing the point much?

So, what was checkbaiter's 'point' about circumcision and good works then?

Originally posted by sonship
What is circumcision ?

What is the connection between circumcision and good works?

Originally posted by FMF
What is the connection between circumcision and good works?

I just spoke quite a bit in a brief couple of posts to that matter.
You didn't get anything from it ?

It helps to see the experience of Abraham "the father of faith" to see how circumcision came in.

This is brief.

God promised Abraham and Sarah a son.
Yet year after year they could not produce this child.

Eventually Sarah came up with a plan. Abraham should have a child by his Egyptian slave Hagar. And Abraham listened to Sarah and the result was one Ishmael was born.

God did not speak to Abraham for thirteen years after that birth of Ishmael. That attempt to have the seed NOT through Sarah the wife but through Hagar the concubine was rejected by God.

God appears to Abraham again and REJECTS Ishmael as the promised seed. No, He said that Abraham and Sarah would have a son, and He meant it. God is able to do it. And even though the old couple thought of themselves as as good as dead, the God who calls not being as being and gives life to the dead knows HOW to fulfill His own promise.

After God made it clear to Abraham that Ishmael was NOT the fulfillment of God's divine promise, God ordained for Abraham to be circumcised. It is at this juncture, before God miraculously comes in to fulfill His word that He institutes for those descedents of Abraham "the father of faith" the symbol of circumcision.

The old man has to be cut off.
The old self centered independent fallen flesh which THINKS it can work for God must be terminated. God doesn't want what you or I can do in our fallen nature. He rejects it. It cannot fulfill His purpose. It can produce only Ishmael who latter mocked Isaac.

The salient point here is that after Abraham's attempt to fulfill God's purpose in the strength of his natural flesh and natural wisdom, God rejects Abraham's effort and ordains circumcision to stand for that divine rejection of what man is in his fallen state.

Of course God comes through and Isaac is born as the promised seed.

Originally posted by sonship
I just spoke quite a bit in a brief couple of posts to that matter.
You didn't get anything from it ?

It read like pretentiously evasive waffle.

sonship,

The superstition-driven genital mutilation described in ancient mythology is a proxy for good works because...

You run with what you know.
I'll go with what we are taught in the Bible concerning circumcision.

If you want to run outside of the Bible to derive your major thoughts about everything, go ahead. Even the Egyptian magicians showed their Pharoah that they too could turn rods to serpents and water to blood by their arts.

God gave us plenty of heads up that there will be parallels and counterfeits among the heathen nations of many things He used in His revelation.

Go find some more. It should be easy.

Originally posted by sonship
You run with what you know.
I'll go with what we are taught in the Bible concerning circumcision.

If you want to run outside of the Bible to derive your major thoughts about everything, go ahead. Even the Egyptian magicians showed their Pharoah that they too could turn rods to serpents and water to blood by their arts.

God gave us plenty of heads u ...[text shortened]... then nations of many things He used in His revelation.

Go find some more. It should be easy.

What makes you think I am intetested in stuff like magicians turning rods into serpents?

Originally posted by FMF
What makes you think I am intetested in stuff like magicians turning rods into serpents?

Did I say you're interested ?

Originally posted by sonship
Did I say you're interested ?

Of stuff like magicians turning rods into serpents you urged me to "Go find some more. It should be easy." What makes you think that's what of interest to me? You're the one who's into magic and demons and miracles etc. Not me.

Originally posted by FMF
Of stuff like magicians turning rods into serpents you urged me to "Go find some more. It should be easy." What makes you think that's what of interest to me? You're the one who's into magic and demons and miracles etc. Not me.

I said go find some counterfeits.
That you seem interested in as they are useful for your skepticism.