Chronic fatigue syndrome, a real condition:

Originally posted by Eladar
Remember the L-Theanine, it helps to stay asleep and not wake up. Of course if it is the pain keeping her up, then that won't help. It does help you calm down too, so that is a good side effect.

http://www.berkeleywellness.com/supplements/other-supplements/article/theanine-calmness-pill

This is a posting of studies done on this stuff, and they said most of the studies were done on children and young adults and there have been studies showing cognitive decline (probably not permanent) and they said bottom line, just drink tea which is where this stuff comes from.

Originally posted by sonhouse
http://www.berkeleywellness.com/supplements/other-supplements/article/theanine-calmness-pill

This is a posting of studies done on this stuff, and they said most of the studies were done on children and young adults and there have been studies showing cognitive decline (probably not permanent) and they said bottom line, just drink tea which is where this stuff comes from.

The dose must be high enough to work. L theanine is water-soluable .

http://www.clevelandclinicwellness.com/Features/Pages/l-theanine-pro-con.aspx


Medication in general is controlled poison. L theanine appears to be pretty safe at the level she is taking it.

Originally posted by Eladar
Wife still. The thing is, each person's body is different. We each have our own puzzle with different pieces to that puzzle. What works for me may not work for your wife. I found my puzzle pieces through trial and error. Some of Dr. Teitelbaum's suggestions were right on. Some had no effect. I STRONGLY recommend getting "From Fatigued to Fantastic". STRONGLY! ...[text shortened]... gram hourly to keep away the feeling that I'm wearing a lead suit and walking through deep mud.

Hello wife🙂 I strongly recommend taking only 1/3 of a milligram of melatonin because of the MIT study. If you take 10 mG you flood the system with the stuff. Remember, an adult only produces about 250 odd MICROgrams (1/4 milligram) and taking more than that just doesn't work. Like putting 10 tablespoons of sugar in your coffee. But worse because melatonin is a powerful hormone. As powerful as LSD which you also take in microgram quanties if you want that kind of high.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Hello wife🙂 I strongly recommend taking only 1/3 of a milligram of melatonin because of the MIT study. If you take 10 mG you flood the system with the stuff. Remember, an adult only produces about 250 odd MICROgrams (1/4 milligram) and taking more than that just doesn't work. Like putting 10 tablespoons of sugar in your coffee. But worse because melatonin ...[text shortened]... one. As powerful as LSD which you also take in microgram quanties if you want that kind of high.

Not wife....

Do you know the absorption rate? From what I found it is about 1/3, so you can divide the amount by 3. Absorption is inconsistent so I think trial and error works best. Start out low, then if that doesn't work, work your way up. I'm sure once she is done with this bottle, she'll go for the lower.

She wants to make sure it works! So she generally over does things probably, but they do work and the way she is managing it seems to work. I've not seen toxic reactions in research. The bad dreams limit what she is willing to do.

Originally posted by Eladar
Not wife....

Do you know the absorption rate? From what I found it is about 1/3, so you can divide the amount by 3. Absorption is inconsistent so I think trial and error works best. Start out low, then if that doesn't work, work your way up. I'm sure once she is done with this bottle, she'll go for the lower.

She wants to make sure it works! So she ...[text shortened]... rk. I've not seen toxic reactions in research. The bad dreams limit what she is willing to do.

10 milligrams is 10 THOUSAND micrograms, compare that to the few hundred micrograms the body produces naturally, at least healthy young adults, older adults produce less, maybe zero, not sure. But to take a twenty times overdose of any hormone can't be good.

I put it down to greedy cynical pharm's who just bottle what they think will sell, the hell with the major MIT study. I was shocked when I saw 10,000 microgram tabs on the shelves.

I'm quite sure if I called them up and told them what I think about that they will just mealy mouth some other study, no doubt done by their paid researchers to give them the rationale to sell at that level. 90% of the crap they sell over the counter is just pandering to our fears.

Originally posted by sonhouse
10 milligrams is 10 THOUSAND micrograms, compare that to the few hundred micrograms the body produces naturally, at least healthy young adults, older adults produce less, maybe zero, not sure. But to take a twenty times overdose of any hormone can't be good.

I put it down to greedy cynical pharm's who just bottle what they think will sell, the hell with ...[text shortened]... o sell at that level. 90% of the crap they sell over the counter is just pandering to our fears.

I'm sure they are upping it due to people thinking more is better.

But as I said, I'm pretty sure she is taking too much.

But going with your numbers, what percent would actually hit the blood stream if the person is only absorbing 5%? The stomach does destroy much of it and if a person has absorption problems, then even less makes it through.

http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-940-melatonin.aspx?activeingredientid=94

http://www.easy-immune-health.com/melatonin-overdose.html

Originally posted by Eladar
I'm sure they are upping it due to people thinking more is better.

But as I said, I'm pretty sure she is taking too much.

But going with your numbers, what percent would actually hit the blood stream if the person is only absorbing 5%? The stomach does destroy much of it and if a person has absorption problems, then even less makes it through.

http: ...[text shortened]... elatonin.aspx?activeingredientid=94

http://www.easy-immune-health.com/melatonin-overdose.html

Don't know that % number. I'll gargle it, see what pops up.

I found this, a ridiculously high dose for the study, 80,000 micrograms! And the results show it, from 1984, a bit dated maybe.

This is just the abstract.

Neuroendocrinology. 1984 Oct;39(4):307-13.
Bioavailability of oral melatonin in humans.
Waldhauser F, Waldhauser M, Lieberman HR, Deng MH, Lynch HJ, Wurtman RJ.
Abstract
We administered crystalline melatonin (80 mg) in gelatin capsules to 5 young male volunteers and measured serum and urinary melatonin levels at intervals. Changes in serum melatonin levels were best described by a biexponential equation with an absorption constant (ka) of 1.72 h-1 (half-life = 0.40 h) and an elimination constant (ke1) of 0.87 h-1 (half-life = 0.80 h). Peak serum melatonin levels, ranging from 350 to 10,000 times those occurring physiologically at nighttime, were observed 60-150 min after its administration, remaining stable for approximately 1.5 h. The fraction of ingested melatonin that was absorbed, estimated from the area under the curve describing serum melatonin concentrations as a function of time after melatonin administration (the concentration-time curve), varied by 25-fold among subjects. 3 additional volunteers received three melatonin-containing capsules (80 mg each) at 60-min intervals. This regimen extended the duration of elevated serum melatonin levels to 4-6 h. Melatonin excretion closely paralleled serum melatonin levels until 9 h after the hormone's administration, after which urinary levels tended to be higher than those predicted from serum levels. However, the area under the concentration-time curve for serum melatonin correlated well (r = 0.96) with the cumulative melatonin excretion during the initial 15 h after melatonin's administration, indicating that either approach can be used to estimate the absorption of orally administered melatonin.
PMID: 6493445

Notice, it says the measured amount internally was 350 to 10,000 times higher than a normal production rate, I did not see actual numbers but that is indicative,

80,000 divide by the smaller number says the body produces about 230 micrograms if those numbers are correct, so it says the bioabsorption is pretty good. I would not take more than 1 milligram at a time. Even that is about 4 times what the body produces.

Here is the link if you want to look at the whole thing:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1463812/

Originally posted by sonhouse
Don't know that % number. I'll gargle it, see what pops up.

I found this, a ridiculously high dose for the study, 80,000 micrograms! And the results show it, from 1984, a bit dated maybe.

This is just the abstract.

Neuroendocrinology. 1984 Oct;39(4):307-13.
Bioavailability of oral melatonin in humans.
Waldhauser F, Waldhauser M, Lieberman HR, De ...[text shortened]... if you want to look at the whole thing:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1463812/

All that is well and good. She is going to take a dose that she knows works. If she doesn't go to sleep, then she ups the dose. As she said, it is only intermittent and she doesn't have adverse reaction other than bad dreams.

What are the adverse reactions you are finding?

Originally posted by Eladar
All that is well and good. She is going to take a dose that she knows works. If she doesn't go to sleep, then she ups the dose. As she said, it is only intermittent and she doesn't have adverse reaction other than bad dreams.

What are the adverse reactions you are finding?

I don't find adverse reactions, just vivid dreams, no nightmares so far. I do only take it every now and then, not regularly. I think even 330 microgram pills are too much. Like if I have at my age say 1/4 that of an adult then I should take 3/4 of what a healthy young adult makes in their bodies. Of course that is not easy to figure out. I think we should only have that which the body produces, but there are those studies showing benefits from super high doses too.

Definitely needs more major studies.