Anthropogenic global warming myth

Originally posted by sonhouse
I never said CO2 was the only cause of warming. Methane is 20 times stronger as a greenhouse gas and the only reason it is not dominant is because it is much less dense in the atmosphere, like hundreds of times less dense V CO2, now clocking in at 400 PPM and rising. Water vapor is also a greenhouse gas.

We have solar records going back near 100 years, I ...[text shortened]... y not as accurate as what we have today but there were observations going on most of century 20.

Yet CO2 is the only cause alarmists will believe. Tell them methane should be considered and they will scoff at you. They will not accept anything else so why are you?

Originally posted by Metal Brain
Yet CO2 is the only cause alarmists will believe. Tell them methane should be considered and they will scoff at you. They will not accept anything else so why are you?

No that is not true. Don't you think someone who studied the field for 10 years to get their Phd in whatever won't know there are other greenhouse gasses like water even? The only reason Methane is not killing us is because right now it is such a minor percentage of CO2 and H2O, but a critical tipping point is close at hand where the present heating will in clear fact start Methane on a path to overtake CO2 and THEN we WILL be in deep doo doo. Already, even Antarctica is starting to green and the Arctic is on an unprecedented greening visible now from space. The more greening, the more warming up the tundra will produce much more Methane and that is a fact and it is going on as we speak. Even Methane ice in the ocean is in danger of dissolving into methane gas as the ocean warms up. This is going to be seen as a positive feedback mechanism where the term positive is not good, but in this case meaning self feeding to increase the Methane levels.
It doesn't look good for the future of mankind regardless and even worse for genetic diversity of life on Earth. The careful balance that has been around for millions of years is now being upset by the largest extinction event in human history and we have ourselves to blame for it regardless of what the deniers think.

Originally posted by Metal Brain
Yet CO2 is the only cause alarmists will believe. Tell them methane should be considered and they will scoff at you. They will not accept anything else so why are you?

Which climate scientists have you told that methane should be considered, after which they scoffed at you?

Originally posted by sonhouse
No that is not true. Don't you think someone who studied the field for 10 years to get their Phd in whatever won't know there are other greenhouse gasses like water even? The only reason Methane is not killing us is because right now it is such a minor percentage of CO2 and H2O, but a critical tipping point is close at hand where the present heating will in ...[text shortened]... ent in human history and we have ourselves to blame for it regardless of what the deniers think.

Your so called facts are mere theories.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Which climate scientists have you told that methane should be considered, after which they scoffed at you?

MYTH 4: CO2 is the most common greenhouse gas.

FACT: Greenhouse gases form about 3% of the atmosphere by volume. They consist of varying amounts, (about 97😵 of water vapour and clouds, with the remainder being gases like CO2, CH4, Ozone and N2O, of which carbon dioxide is the largest amount. Hence, CO2 constitutes about 0.04% of the atmosphere. While the minor gases are more effective as "greenhouse agents" than water vapour and clouds, the latter are overwhelming the effect by their sheer volume and – in the end – are thought to be responsible for 75% of the "Greenhouse effect". (See here) At current concentrations, a 3% change of water vapour in the atmosphere would have the same effect as a 100% change in CO2.

Originally posted by Metal Brain
MYTH 4: CO2 is the most common greenhouse gas.

CO2 is the second most common greenhouse gas in the atmosphere and the fact that CO2 constitutes a much lower percentage of the atmosphere than water vapor isn't the critical factor here because how much greenhouse effect a gas has doesn't, as in this case, always equate with how much climate change it will cause;

https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/climatescience/climatesciencenarratives/its-water-vapor-not-the-co2.html
"...
water vapor is the largest contributor to the Earth’s greenhouse effect. On average, it probably accounts for about 60% of the warming effect. However, water vapor does not control the Earth’s temperature, but is instead controlled by the temperature.
...
...
If there had been no increase in the amounts of non-condensable greenhouse gases (such as CO2 ) , the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere would not have changed with all other variables remaining the same. The addition of the non-condensable gases causes the temperature to increase and this leads to an increase in water vapor that further increases the temperature. This is an example of a positive feedback effect.
...
...
There is also a possibility that adding more water vapor to the atmosphere could produce a negative feedback effect. This could happen if more water vapor leads to more cloud formation. Clouds reflect sunlight and reduce the amount of energy that reaches the Earth’s surface to warm it
..."

Thus the main gas determining climate CHANGE, not to be confused like you are doing here with the CURRENT AMOUNT of greenhouse effect, isn't water vapor but rather CO2 thus rendering all your post totally irrelevant.

Originally posted by humy
CO2 is the second most common greenhouse gas in the atmosphere and the fact that CO2 constitutes a much lower percentage of the atmosphere than water vapor isn't the critical factor here because how much greenhouse effect a gas has doesn't, as in this case, always equate with how much climate change it will cause;

https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/climatesc ...[text shortened]... nhouse effect, isn't water vapor but rather CO2 thus rendering all your post totally irrelevant.

"There is also a possibility that adding more water vapor to the atmosphere could produce a negative feedback effect. This could happen if more water vapor leads to more cloud formation. Clouds reflect sunlight and reduce the amount of energy that reaches the Earth’s surface to warm it "

You just made your other statements irrelevant with the one above. The Earth's climate is remarkably stable and will stay that way for a very long time as long as we don't have a nuclear war or a comet or asteroid hit the earth.

Originally posted by Metal Brain

You just made your other statements irrelevant with the one above. .

You implied water vapor is the main cause of climate change. I say it isn't and, if you now say the above statement confirms that, then it is not irrelevant as it shows you now contradict yourself as you are now saying the exact opposite. Thank you for admitting you were wrong.

The Earth's climate is remarkably stable and will stay that way for a very long time

According to which climate model? According to you, all climate models are unreliable at predicting climate. Therefore, IF all climate models are unreliable at predicting climate as you claim, whatever so-called 'climate model' you personally have (please don't make me laugh) and thus are using here, you cannot reliably predict that climate is "remarkably stable" and will "stay that way for a very long time" thus you contradict yourself.

Originally posted by humy
You implied water vapor is the main cause of climate change. I say it isn't and, if you now say the above statement confirms that, then it is not irrelevant as it shows you now contradict yourself as you are now saying the exact opposite. Thank you for admitting you were wrong.

[quote]The Earth's climate is remarkably stable and will stay that way for a very ...[text shortened]... "remarkably stable" and will "stay that way for a very long time" thus you contradict yourself.

Here is an excerpt from the link you posted:

"However, water vapor does not control the Earth’s temperature, but is instead controlled by the temperature. This is because the temperature of the surrounding atmosphere limits the maximum amount of water vapor the atmosphere can contain."

That is irrelevant. It might make sense if all air had 100% humidity, but it does not. Another stupid link from a stupid person.

Originally posted by Metal Brain


"However, water vapor does not control the Earth’s temperature, but is instead controlled by the temperature. This is because the temperature of the surrounding atmosphere limits the maximum amount of water vapor the atmosphere can contain."

...It might make sense if all air had 100% humidity,....

which it does when water vapor condensates to form rain in clouds thus lowering and limiting the total water vapor in the whole atmosphere; you are obviously too stupid to get it.

Originally posted by Metal Brain
MYTH 4: CO2 is the most common greenhouse gas.

FACT: Greenhouse gases form about 3% of the atmosphere by volume. They consist of varying amounts, (about 97😵 of water vapour and clouds, with the remainder being gases like CO2, CH4, Ozone and N2O, of which carbon dioxide is the largest amount. Hence, CO2 constitutes about 0.04% of the atmosphere. Whi ...[text shortened]... 3% change of water vapour in the atmosphere would have the same effect as a 100% change in CO2.

So, no one then?

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
So, no one then?

I didn't say I told climate scientists that. People on this forum have said that though. Why would you ask a question based on something that nobody implied?

Originally posted by Metal Brain
I didn't say I told climate scientists that. People on this forum have said that though. Why would you ask a question based on something that nobody implied?

When someone uses phrases like 'most common' they are referring to mass, total volume and such. They are not implicitly saying it is the most dangerous.
Pound for pound methane is 20 times more dangerous a heating gas.
There is a LOT of methane in the arctic and the more the climate heats up for whatever reason, the more methane is emitted and that can overwhelm CO2 or any other heating gas in the atmosphere.

The fact Earth is getting hotter is not in dispute and that means the threat of methane grows by the year and only by doing something now can we avoid a disaster humans have never seen before.

Among other problems, mass extinctions going on as we speak, every year we lose diversity of life forms a LOT faster than nature can come up with alternatives to niches.

That by itself is a disaster waiting to happen.

Originally posted by sonhouse
When someone uses phrases like 'most common' they are referring to mass, total volume and such. They are not implicitly saying it is the most dangerous.
Pound for pound methane is 20 times more dangerous a heating gas.
There is a LOT of methane in the arctic and the more the climate heats up for whatever reason, the more methane is emitted and that can ...[text shortened]... ture can come up with alternatives to niches.

That by itself is a disaster waiting to happen.

Wasn't it you that said methane breaks down in the atmosphere so it should not be considered as a greater threat than CO2?

"Among other problems, mass extinctions going on as we speak, every year we lose diversity of life forms a LOT faster than nature can come up with alternatives to niches."

These mass extinctions (as you call them) have nothing to do with global warming. Why do you always point out false correlations like this?

Originally posted by Metal Brain
Wasn't it you that said methane breaks down in the atmosphere so it should not be considered as a greater threat than CO2?

"Among other problems, mass extinctions going on as we speak, every year we lose diversity of life forms a LOT faster than nature can come up with alternatives to niches."

These mass extinctions (as you call them) have nothing to do with global warming. Why do you always point out false correlations like this?

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/earth-permian-mass-extinction-apocalypse-warning-climate-change-frozen-methane-a7648006.html

One of the worse mass extinction events WAS caused by global warming.

Scientists are anticipating an explosion of Methane from undersea and underground sources:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4335386/7-000-underground-methane-gas-bubbles-Russia.html