New Clan Challenge Rules

Now that the shambles of last year have been sorted we need to make changes to ensure fairer results in future
I would personally like to see an end to negative points to stop resigning games early once a challenge has been decided
There should also be a limit on how often challenging the same clan can count towards a clans total points to stop what happened last year

Originally posted by padger
Now that the shambles of last year have been sorted we need to make changes to ensure fairer results in future
I would personally like to see an end to negative points to stop resigning games early once a challenge has been decided
There should also be a limit on how often challenging the same clan can count towards a clans total points to stop what happened last year

there could be a problem with negative points removal in that if clans never lose points and just keeping incrementing points then the clan that plays the most challenges will most likely win each year, quick look at gross points and can see how the tables would look instead

Originally posted by Wycombe Al
there could be a problem with negative points removal in that if clans never lose points and just keeping incrementing points then the clan that plays the most challenges will most likely win each year, quick look at gross points and can see how the tables would look instead

and it does come out that the clan that has played the most (Fast Players) would have been the 2016 champion

Originally posted by padger
Now that the shambles of last year have been sorted we need to make changes to ensure fairer results in future
I would personally like to see an end to negative points to stop resigning games early once a challenge has been decided
There should also be a limit on how often challenging the same clan can count towards a clans total points to stop what happened last year

Padger,

What happened last year was a plan for clans to collude for one reason to beat Metallica. The way it is set up now, once a clan challenge is won, the clan has to move on as only so many challenges can be going on at the same time. If a clan is beat they are beat continuing will not change that fact. I certainly don't have all the answers. I believe Russ is doing the best he can and has handled the situation well.

Perhaps being able to play more challenges at one time would be an improvement?
Just a thought!

-VR

Originally posted by padger
Now that the shambles of last year have been sorted we need to make changes to ensure fairer results in future
I would personally like to see an end to negative points to stop resigning games early once a challenge has been decided
There should also be a limit on how often challenging the same clan can count towards a clans total points to stop what happened last year

I spent sometime putting forth some ideas, as have others, to improve the clan feature.

Reading my submission over again, I found that I was responding to accusations levelled against Metallica.
So I was appeasing the accusers.

One of the accusations was members of Metallica resigning games in won or decided challenges.
The real question that would be raised in any analysis is "how often is this happening ?"
And if the occurrences are rare, then is it worth the fix ??

I now conclude that the issue came out of the hysteria of the few who are no longer involved in clan activities.

Russ spent some time and effort trying to solve the issues and probably does not have the appetite to revisit them anytime soon.

Maybe later on, we can all have a sensible conversation on improving the clan feature and maybe even find the real flaws in the system.
Now that we have eliminated the hysteria and white noise from the malcontents.

As to the checkmates in under 5 moves, I ask the same question.
How often will it happen ??
If I were Russ, I would trust the honor system.

Now is a good time for a cooling off period.
Maybe down the road we can start a new thread for new ideas and suggestion.
Sort of a GIF (Great Ideas Forum).

In the meantime, we have the 2017 clan season back.
Let's all have a great campaign !!

Originally posted by Wycombe Al
there could be a problem with negative points removal in that if clans never lose points and just keeping incrementing points then the clan that plays the most challenges will most likely win each year, quick look at gross points and can see how the tables would look instead

Surely that's what happens anyway
The Clan that is most industrious wins
Tell me another game that takes away points already earned

I am in favor of giving the honor system another chance, with increased vigilance.

Originally posted by moonbus
I am in favor of giving the honor system another chance, with increased vigilance.

I am also with a VERY increased vigilance!

We have to ensure things don't go back to the way they were.

-VR

Originally posted by moonbus
I am in favor of giving the honor system another chance, with increased vigilance.

I would also like things to go back to where they were but with few more rules
Like limiting clan challenges between clans
Like not taking away points that have already been gained
Like if a player has not moved for a week ( vacations excluded ) they cannot go into a clan challenge

Originally posted by padger
I would also like things to go back to where they were but with few more rules
Like limiting clan challenges between clans
Like not taking away points that have already been gained
Like if a player has not moved for a week ( vacations excluded ) they cannot go into a clan challenge

1. "limiting clan challenges between clans": some clans like to play each other; let them do so, but limit the number of challenges (with the same players) which count towards the standings.

2."not taking away points that have already been gained": I agree.

3. "if a player has not moved for a week ( vacations excluded ) they cannot go into a clan challenge": it is important to distinguish dead players (i.e., those spuriously 'recruited' to make no moves ever and intentionally time out on move one and skew the score), from players who are merely temporarily inactive or indisposed (ill, getting married, forgot to set holiday flag, in counseling for Internet addiction disorder, etc.); this is probably best left to clan captains to sort out rather than a fixed rule with a fixed number of days or weeks.

Originally posted by padger
I would also like things to go back to where they were but with few more rules
Like limiting clan challenges between clans
Like not taking away points that have already been gained
Like if a player has not moved for a week ( vacations excluded ) they cannot go into a clan challenge

If you are going to place limitations on how many times two clans can play each other,
then you also need to figure out how to force clans to play each other, which isn't very practical.

There are many clans who refuse to play other clans.
There are some clans that only play a challenge or two at a time.
There are some clans who are dead in the water and play no one.
Now, if you place limitations beyond the no more than 3 consecutive challenges,
you would severely hamper the ability to even get games.
That would tend to stifle competition, which I really don't think we want, do we?

I do agree that we don't want a repeat of what happened with the three sisters and robbie.
I think the 5 move rule will help in that regard.
Perhaps what moonbus I believe was alluding to, if a clan has more than X number of challenges
in a year, any additional challenges get rewarded no points and become skittles challenges per se??

Originally posted by padger
I would also like things to go back to where they were but with few more rules
Like limiting clan challenges between clans
Like not taking away points that have already been gained
Like if a player has not moved for a week ( vacations excluded ) they cannot go into a clan challenge

Padger,

I really don't see how helpful it would be limiting clan challenges. I only have 5 on going clan challange games where before the limitations I would have as many as 30 + going at any one time.

All limiting clan challenges will do is result in players resigning after a challenge has been lost, which I think has been going on for years anyway. Not much need in playing a lost challenge is there?

I am here to play clan games not sit around waiting for games because no one will play us. I don't have the answers but limiting challenges between clans may not be the answer, in my humble opinion.

Some Clans are only here to play a few games and mostly talk in the forums. Our clan and others like us are here to compete. I am certainly not happy with the way my game load has dropped. It forces me to play in tournaments against higher rated opponents, I don't have a prayer in hell winning. It doesn't mean I am trying to lower my rating. It means I have no choice. I don't care much for playing non-rated games, I've tried that. NO REWARD FOR WINNING!!!

-VR

There are 145 Clans currently in operation
If only 140 accept challenges and you limit the number of challenges to 3 it equals 342
If you limit to say 5 it would be 700
How many challenges do you want to play in a year ?
If you make it say the number of times a player can play the same Clan within a Clan challenge would that be better ?

Originally posted by padger
There are 145 Clans currently in operation
If only 140 accept challenges and you limit the number of challenges to 3 it equals 342
If you limit to say 5 it would be 700
How many challenges do you want to play in a year ?
If you make it say the number of times a player can play the same Clan within a Clan challenge would that be better ?

If 140 clans accepted our challenges we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I would like to play more than we did last year for sure, many clans do not play us. (Reason why I only have 5 games on going presently)

Perhaps every clan should have to play every other clan so many times. Problem with that would be finding players who would match up I would assume.

I've just been pointing out my own personal feelings of how things are going now, not that of the Metallica Clan.

-VR

Originally posted by padger
There are 145 Clans currently in operation
If only 140 accept challenges and you limit the number of challenges to 3 it equals 342
If you limit to say 5 it would be 700
How many challenges do you want to play in a year ?
If you make it say the number of times a player can play the same Clan within a Clan challenge would that be better ?

Here is the problem. Your numbers are way off on the clans.
These numbers are generated as of 15 minutes ago.

Yes there are 145 clans shown on the pages.

3 of those clans are Anti-Metallica, The Arrow and Breaking Bad

This reduces us to 142 clans.
Of those 142 clans, there are 23 that are either dead, not playing any challenges at all or the clan leader is a non-sub
This prohibits ANY challenges from being issued to those clans.
This reduces the total active clans to 120.

Of those 120 clans there are 9 with only 1 active clan member
There are 9 with only 2 active clan members
There are 9 with only 3 active clan members
There are 10 with only 4 active clan members
There are 9 with only 5 active clan members
There are 8 with only 6 active clan members
That makes 54 clans that are minimal in size.
That means there are 66 clans with 7 active members or more in them.

Here is another neat stat...there are only 32 clans at RHP with at least 10 active members.

When you consider vacations, or unavailability of players for whatever reasons,
then you take into account the 200 point plateau for match-ups,
a large clan will have difficulty getting a large amount of challenges if you
try to limit the number of total challenges. Furthermore, there is already
a restriction for no more than 3 concurrent challenges between any clans.