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Doubled pawns (and an endgame screw up)

Subscriber64squaresofpain
Only Chess 13 Sep '14 16:14
  1. Subscriber64squaresofpain
    The drunk knight
    Stuck on g1
    Joined
    02 Sep '12
    Moves
    59217
    13 Sep '14 16:142 edits
    Greetings players and fellow patzers 🙂

    A topic I've been meaning to address in a thread for some time:
    Just how bad are doubled pawns?

    Several times in a game, whenever I see a chance to double-up my opponents pawns,
    I jump at the chance, believing that I will be stronger in the long-term.

    The following game however is a recent lesson.
    I have made some annotations but am no doubt leaving blanks,
    so I welcome anyone to add to (or improve) what I've said.

    I play White.

    Invert BoardPGNHeadersComments


    I had overestimated my chances of promoting the c-pawn, thinking saccing the rook would be ok...
    the game could have still been drawish if not for this, I feel.

    Does anyone have any clear cut examples of how doubled pawns can play a crucial factor in a middle game transposing to endgame?

    Thanks,

    64

    Edit: And I almost forgot, congrats to billtong for the tournament win.
    If this game had been a draw, we would have had to play 2 more games!
  2. MC
    Standard memberMISTER CHESS
    Joined
    08 Aug '09
    Moves
    708
    13 Sep '14 21:051 edit
    Originally posted by 64squaresofpain
    Greetings players and fellow patzers 🙂

    A topic I've been meaning to address in a thread for some time:
    Just how bad are doubled pawns?

    Several times in a game, whenever I see a chance to double-up my opponents pawns,
    I jump at the chance, believing that I will be stronger in the long-term.

    The following game however is a recent lesson.
    I ...[text shortened]... g for the tournament win.
    If this game had been a draw, we would have had to play 2 more games!
    It isn't the double pawns that are weak its the position that you dictate around them. You also have to weigh the pros AND cons of your move.

    After doubling your opponents pawns you helped, no forced, them to become a strength.

    When you closed the game off was your positional error... in that case black has more pawns nearer the center of the board than you and has the open files.

    Looking at the rest of the game it just appears to be a blunder fest.
  3. Subscriber64squaresofpain
    The drunk knight
    Stuck on g1
    Joined
    02 Sep '12
    Moves
    59217
    13 Sep '14 23:24
    Originally posted by MISTER CHESS

    When you closed the game off was your positional error... in that case black has more pawns nearer the center of the board than you and has the open files.

    Looking at the rest of the game it just appears to be a blunder fest.
    Was closing the game off really that bad?
    I thought at the time it was good for me, and Fritz seemed to agree when I ran it through
    (although it says 0-0-0 was better than g5).

    Most of my games ARE blunder fests, hence the reason why I make these threads;
    I like to learn 🙂

    Oh, and there wasn't an immediate mate threat after move 18, ignore that note.
  4. Standard memberwolfgang59
    Quiz Master
    RHP Arms
    Joined
    09 Jun '07
    Moves
    48793
    13 Sep '14 23:321 edit
    Both doubled pawns are moving towards the centre of the board so that is a plus factor.

    The first doubled pawn actually strengthens blacks centre and allows d5

    The second doubled pawn opens the file for the rook.

    So I would not see either move as weakening.

    edit: f5 was a terrible move by black!
  5. Subscriber64squaresofpain
    The drunk knight
    Stuck on g1
    Joined
    02 Sep '12
    Moves
    59217
    14 Sep '14 00:07
    Ok, thanks for that.

    It's been a while since I've committed to any real studying of the game, maybe it's time I did some catching up...
    hit me some tutorials, play through games, rinse and repeat.

    I should be better at stuff like this by now.

    Maybe now that I've been sacked from work I'll have more time on my hands to do this! 😀
  6. MC
    Standard memberMISTER CHESS
    Joined
    08 Aug '09
    Moves
    708
    14 Sep '14 01:35
    Originally posted by 64squaresofpain
    Was closing the game off really that bad?
    I thought at the time it was good for me, and Fritz seemed to agree when I ran it through
    (although it says 0-0-0 was better than g5).

    Most of my games ARE blunder fests, hence the reason why I make these threads;
    I like to learn 🙂

    Oh, and there wasn't an immediate mate threat after move 18, ignore that note.
    the first pawn closure creates a supported passed pawn and is a good idea but the plan of closing the game is faulty. That is the danger of using an engine, moves might be fine its the thought process which must be fixed.

    If you do happen to find a good move for a wrong reason then you will probably mess up that good move on the next.
  7. Subscribergreenpawn34
    e4
    Joined
    06 May '08
    Moves
    42492
    14 Sep '14 03:05
    Thread 114365 Just one the many threads on here discussing Double Pawns.
  8. Subscriber64squaresofpain
    The drunk knight
    Stuck on g1
    Joined
    02 Sep '12
    Moves
    59217
    14 Sep '14 11:24
    Originally posted by MISTER CHESS
    the first pawn closure creates a supported passed pawn and is a good idea but the plan of closing the game is faulty. That is the danger of using an engine, moves might be fine its the thought process which must be fixed.

    If you do happen to find a good move for a wrong reason then you will probably mess up that good move on the next.
    Thanks for the input, but just as a disclaimer in case my comments mislead some people,
    I do not use the engine during the game!

    Later on today, I will read up a whole bunch on 'closing games',
    the when to's and when not to's etc
    Thanks again 🙂
  9. MC
    Standard memberMISTER CHESS
    Joined
    08 Aug '09
    Moves
    708
    17 Sep '14 10:571 edit
    Originally posted by 64squaresofpain
    Thanks for the input, but just as a disclaimer in case my comments mislead some people,
    I do not use the engine [b]during     the game!

    Later on today, I will read up a whole bunch on 'closing games',
    the when to's and when not to's etc
    Thanks again 🙂[/b]
    a general rule of thumb is to close the board when at a disadvantage and to open it when at an advantage... or better yet, leave the board closed or under tension until opening up or relieving the tension bring you an advantage.

    Basically, lines have to be open eventually for you to realize any advantage you have gained but opening them too soon or when you cannot take control of them will lead to bad things for you.

    Chess is a game of targets, identify the target, open lines to the target and then attack the target. sometimes the target is a weak pawn, a critical square(complex of squares) or a piece and in the end it will be the enemy king if everything else went well. That is strategy at its most basic, add in a dash of tactics and voila you have sequences of moves to evaluate.
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